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Up Topic Communities / Women / New Week New NRR
- - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2018-02-05 2:44 PM
2/5- whenever someone starts another one.
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2018-02-05 2:46 PM
Question about how you respond to people you know who make sexist, racist or homophobic comments.

Example:
Mom and Dad are talking about two men that live on their street. Mom comments that one of them really loves his new boots and was going on and on about how much he loves his new boots.  Dad feels the need to day "They are married to eachother, you know".

Example 2:
You are in the break room at work and your boss (who is from India) and your direct report (who is from Russia) and you are talking.  The direct report says she was trying to sell some stuff on craigslist and "your people" were giving her a hard time.  Boss say "what do you mean 'your people'" direct report says, "you know, Indian people". 

What do you do?
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-05 3:11 PM
Tough ones.

(1) I'd likely say to dad something along the lines of: "And what is the relevance of their marital status to his enjoyment of his new boots?" - likely with a raised eyebrow and a bit of a light glare indicating my awareness of the implications of his comment.

(2) Being in the middle of a direct report and a superior is tricky.... here, I might wait a beat to see if Superior is going to speak up him/herself - it is his/her right to respond. I would also be looking to see if Superior seems rattled or not, is going to speak with Report after (and does not wish to do so in a more public break room setting), etc.... micro-cues, I suppose. If I were in sufficient authority over Report to say so, and if I knew I had the backing of Superior/management in terms of the policy statement, I would say: "I do not tolerate use of such language from members of my team in the workplace. I trust you can determine why. Should you have difficulty with that policy or are uncertain why the comments are inappropriate, you are more than welcome to take it up with me directly and I am happy to enlighten you."
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-05 3:13 PM
Depending on your work relationships, I might be inclined to use humor in the second situation... "What?! No, <big boss> isn't in charge of an entire racial group in the area...only people at this company, like yourself"
Parent - By runnertype [us] Date 2018-02-05 6:32 PM
I agree with Mickey here, but also might take Arimathea's approach of letting the boss handle it.
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-05 5:25 PM
1) I agree, ask what his liking for his new boots has to do with his being married to anyone or to a specific person.

2) Very awkward. Keep mouth firmly shut and let boss handle it. Direct report put her foot in it, boss doesn't need anyone else jumping into the situation. Later you can talk to DR and let boss know how you handled this.
Parent - By SRoo Date 2018-02-05 7:30 PM
1.  "Yes, I know, they seem like a good couple.  Although I'm not sure I agree with his taste in footwear."  Normalize it.

2.  Agree with Mickey.   Very dependent on the nature of the conversation, the intention, prior conversations, etc.  As written, I would acknowledge and diffuse "wow, that is a pretty broad statement."
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2018-02-05 7:56 PM
Agree with others on this.
Parent - By classicsnerd [us] Date 2018-02-06 6:54 AM
good suggestions from others! The second one is particularly tricky, ugh.
Parent - - By Zipper [us] Date 2018-02-06 2:29 PM
1) SRoo nailed it. I'd have said something along those lines. If I wanted to be more pointed, I might have also said "You sound uncomfortable with the fact that they are married; does it bother you?" Basically pointing out the elephant in the conversation.

2) Ack. Awkward. There is no easy answer.

Personal NRR: this week's update on Dali is that she is improving more than I expected. She is eating better, has more energy and is grooming herself a little more. She is also being bright and affectionate, asking for attention and coming out to sit with us or hang out close to us. Fluids and frequent small meals of tasty foods seem to be helping a lot.
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-06 2:44 PM
Yay Dali! Glad she is grooming, that's so important for a cat.
Parent - By judyruns Date 2018-02-06 3:18 PM
Great news about Dali. :hug: My cat would come and sit close to us, but with her back to us. :laugh: If we talked to her though, she would flick the very tip of her tail. :hug:
Parent - By runningteach [us] Date 2018-02-06 5:14 PM
:hug:I'm glad Dali is improving.
Parent - By runnertype [us] Date 2018-02-07 9:32 AM
Good news!
Parent - - By NotSoFast [us] Date 2018-02-06 6:52 PM
Example 1

"Hey Dad, buy Mom those boots she really loves them"
Parent - By classicsnerd [us] Date 2018-02-07 10:53 AM
lol
Parent - - By gophergirl [us] Date 2018-02-06 7:52 PM
15 minutes before bus comes O informed me she needed to make a musical instrument for a school project for today :meh: Coffe cans make good drums right!
Parent - By SRoo Date 2018-02-06 8:53 PM
:laugh:  Good thinking!
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-07 7:36 AM
Coffee cans are excellent drums!

FWIW, Each of my kids missed out on something at least once because they told me too late (night before is ok, morning before school is not ok). They were annoyed beyond measure & I held firm. They still remember the 'missing out' and that it was due to their own lack of planning. I think it has helped them take more responsibility, but I may be imagining it.
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2018-02-07 10:56 AM
Completely agree! Had it not been a simple fix she would have missed out.
Parent - - By swandive Date 2018-02-07 2:52 AM
OMG, I had such a good time tonight.  I :hug: Machine Head and this is one of the best shows I've ever been to.  The music was fantastic and the crowd was great -- tons of energy but the people around me were all very courteous so they weren't on top of me or anything.  All of the guys in the band definitely recognized me from the last show and my friend and I got a shout-out from the lead singer.  I got a Most Valuable Rager shirt (which would take some explaining, but is a super awesome thing to get) and got a setlist from the lead guitarist.  I waited around for a couple of hours after the show and the guys finally came out and chatted and I got autographs (I have stacks of Machine Head autographs :laugh:) and hugs and promises that they'll be back next year after I told them that it's unlikely that I will make it to any more shows this tour cycle.  I really, really wish I could follow them a bit more.
Parent - By judyruns Date 2018-02-07 7:41 AM
It's great that you had such a good time. Switching our brains back to these fun times can be very healing. Like a mental bandaid.
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-07 6:47 PM
You have earned all these shows. Very glad that you had such a good time!
Parent - - By Zipper [us] Date 2018-02-07 10:06 AM
Therapy appointment tonight, followed by date night. Interested in how therapy goes. I have realized I need to go no-contact with my biological family, so there is plenty we could talk about. But in a way, making the decision and also having my husband and two of our closest friends see so clearly how my family treats me, and validate what I have been saying I have experienced from them over the years, has been amazingly therapeutic in itself. I feel amazingly peaceful already, and ready to move the f*ck on with my life. Part of me wants to just say "I'm okay now" and skip the appointment. I KNOW there is more to discuss, though, and it will be helpful to go dig into it.
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-07 6:47 PM
I think that is a very wise decision.
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2018-02-07 10:48 AM
MCF and I have been trying to find a way to connect during the week when he works late.  So we had breakfast together before I left for work (he's not usually even awake when I leave). It was fun to have that time with him to start my day. :hug:

Regarding the questions above.  In the first one I said nothing.  In the second one I said something like "you mean 'her people' like all of the millions of people from India?"  The moment was awkward, and we moved on. I don't know if my boss ever said anything to my direct report.

I probably could say something to dad. I have before, when he made a comment about someone "driving like an oriental" :shocker!: and I told him I was shocked and that it sounded like something his mother would say.  He got it that time.

A really good photographer came out to our swim last week, and brought a canoe and a paddler, and got some awesome photos.  I posted the ones of me on FB, and some of the ones of other people are even better, but I don't feel I have the right to share.
Parent - By Zipper [us] Date 2018-02-07 1:34 PM
I liked seeing the photos!! And confirm you are a BAMF for swimming in that. I am freezing cold looking at the grey sky and grey water. Brrrrrrr.
Parent - By kelly_v Date 2018-02-08 8:14 AM
those sound like really cool photos!
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-07 3:08 PM
Someone... find my motivation to care long enough to generate two sample data sets & run another set of experiments... I am so very much over this!

In good news, I need one more graphic done (that requires two sample data sets & an experimental trial to complete), and maybe 6 more sentences to smooth transitions between things. Oh, and all the edits I don't know about yet from my editorial minions.

Have I mentioned I'm almost done!?
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-07 6:48 PM
Do NOT sit down by the side of the road at mile 25. Get your butt over that finish line!
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-07 8:41 PM
:shocker!: This is more like mile 25.9 : pbbt:  Good metaphor!
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-09 3:22 PM
:grin: Even better...
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 2:28 PM
:meh:
I need "original" signatures from people in two states and two continents for a form ....  "Per University policy, the signatures must be original"

But, they ALL need to be on the SAME form.... soooo... I need to send a freaking piece of paper around the damn globe to get signatures "Per University Policy"

And the purpose of this is.... <drumroll> so the signatures are not forged / facsimile.  FFS, people, if I'm about to defend my PhD and I'm forging signatures, there is something way more wrong with me than turning in a form with scanned copies of signatures.

:mutmad:
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-08 3:03 PM
My father had to do that for a legal matter, and it was an incredible headache for all involved. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for you for your defending process. I'm guessing you'll have to overnight and have mailing signatures required for delivery on top of it all to make sure that the document gets everywhere properly via the post? Sigh.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 3:18 PM
:blush: I found a loophole.

:blush::blush: it involves all of my committee members forwarding an emailed attachment of the signed & scanned form I just sent them back to the graduate school through their official accounts.

There was no way I could overnight a document to randomlocationprofessoristravellingto and expect it to actually meet up with her on her multi-city itinerary in time to sign & return before my deadline.
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-08 4:47 PM
Hooray for loopholes! And for the speed of scanning!
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-09 6:51 AM
it was already scanned, with all the signatures, and sent around the globe once.  I'm just re-creating the same procedure but having a lot of CC'd emails in the process because one must originate from every committee member's own email box.  :roll:
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-09 3:24 PM
Yay for the loophole!

I once had to have an underwriter meet me in the lobby of his building to sign a document IN BLUE INK and then run it up to the office of the entity demanding the original signature on the document, because a contract needed to be signed and the entity insisted they could not go forward without having an original signature on file.

Municipalities. Bah.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-09 5:17 PM
I get that for legal documents, but this is the scheduling form? It sets a time & a location for the defense, which (presumably) all the committee members need to be present virtually or in person, because THOSE signatures are the important ones.

I should have asked if I needed to have engraved invitations created. : pbbt:
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2018-02-08 3:14 PM
How frustrating! :mutmad:
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2018-02-08 5:05 PM
MCF's immigration required four "original" copies of our marriage licence.  I'm not sure "original" means what they think it means. : pbbt:
Parent - By ironjen Date 2018-02-09 6:38 AM
What freaking possible reason would there be to need FOUR freaking "original" copies of the same thing? Good grief, no wonder why we have immigration issues.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-09 6:49 AM
:laugh::meh:
I think this is a reflection on the level of "normal education" in the US, with respect to legal terms.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-09 8:21 AM
There is the legal fiction of "duplicate originals" that always had me puzzled since law school.....
Parent - - By spccer6 [us] Date 2018-02-08 2:28 PM
I'm shaking, so angry.

Sitting in a planning meeting, the PM running the meeting says she and her peer Caitlyn are going to be working offsite tomorrow.  One of my (male) peers says "Oh a spa day?".  One of my (male) managers says "oh yeah, mani/pedi day!".  I saw both PMs faces fall.  I wasn't quick enough with words to respond in the moment.  I wish I'd been quick enough to think to say "Wow, that was inappropriate" but I wasn't.  I have since circled around to both dudes (and their peer groups so they'd get the message too) that it was inappropriate, that they would never have said that to Joe if he said he and Eric were going to be offsite tomorrow. 

My direct report manager has responded that he agrees and will go apologize.  My peer hasn't seen my message yet. Why TF do dudes think this is appropriate?  These two women work their asses off to make these dudes' lives easier at work, and they cleared their schedule tomorrow to be able to focus and knock out a bunch of things the dudes have been asking for.  THIS is how you treat them?  We wonder why women don't want to work in tech?!?!?!?
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 2:35 PM
:meh: I'd comment, but I'm just "a FEMALE double-E"
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-08 3:01 PM
:mutmad:
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2018-02-08 3:16 PM
:shocker!::mutmad:
Parent - By swandive Date 2018-02-09 8:37 AM
WTF is wrong with people? :mutmad:
Parent - By tritri Date 2018-02-09 10:50 AM
:shocker!::mutmad::mutmad:
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-09 3:42 PM
I am very angry on their behalf.

Next time somebody says he and a colleague are working offsite tomorrow, ask him what time the lap dancer is scheduled. That is about the same level of offensiveness.
Up Topic Communities / Women / New Week New NRR

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