Not logged inRunango Running Forum
Forum Reset Last Read Help Search Register Login
Up Topic General / Letters and Opinions / February Book Thread and extra Library Question
- - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-02 11:45 PM
ok so I've finished Kobi and Fire and Fury, two very different books to say the least. :laugh: What are you reading and what do you think of them?

My questions are about your home library. We routinely donate books to the public library and pitch those the libraries don't want, but do keep some. I've got all the Ian Fleming James Bond paperbacks from the 50s and 60s and every book Richard Brautigan ever wrote, and keep some others like Larry Niven classics, but all of them mainly packed away in boxes. My wife has some favorites also, but we don't have a shelf for them either. I know lots of peeps have impressive shelves of books.

So the questions in addition to what you are reading at the moment: Do you have a library with shelves, what is on those shelves, do you save certain books and why, do you donate to libraries or otherwise give away your books? Any related stories will be appreciated too, of course. :happy:
Parent - - By N70SAK Date 2018-02-03 3:05 AM Edited 2018-02-03 3:11 AM
:hug: Yes, certainly. We don't have a dedicated room but every room has books. We have mostly science and economics related stuff,physics, engineering, astronomy, computers and telecommunications,  aviation, travel, history, and some classic sci-fi.

I'm plugging along with the same textbooks. We are on Cabin Pressurization and Environmental Controls this week. So I will be digging into the Dassault Falcon HU-25 manuals this weekend. :hug: I really like this plane. It is the US Coastguard jet we got in exchange for our HH-52 helicopter they took back and put in the Smithsonian. :meh:

We did thin out the collection some, giving to libraries and the Goodwill. :happy:

I never did get far into the last fun book I started for the umpteenth time, Electric Kool Aid Acid Test.: pbbt:
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-03 6:26 PM
:cool: I enjoy being in living spaces with books on shelves since it says a lot of things.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-05 10:28 AM
:hug:
Parent - - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2018-02-03 10:34 AM
I have shelves and boxes full of books.  I save nearly all of them.  I keep meaning to pitch a few college textbooks, but haven't yet.  My shelves are full of "self-improvement" books, mostly from a Christian perspective.  Dallas Willard, Jerry Bridges, John Eldredge, and Bruce McLaren afe a few of the authors, but there are many more.  I also have quite a few history books, some novels, and some miscellaneous non-fiction.  A lot of the fiction I have came from my time helping at the homeless shelter, where I could buy a lot of these books for very little money. 

I re-read a lot of books, or intend to re-read them.  Sometimes I'll buy a book that I had borrowed from the library and found particularly valuable.  More often than not, these tend to sit on the shelf and I don't get back to them. :wtf:

I'm enjoying Fire and Fury.  Kobi I'll have to look up.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-03 6:31 PM
Hoarder. : pbbt: No actually, I do completely understand that. :cool::hug: I hate getting rid of books because most I want to read again even when I know that I won't.

You of anyone I know absolutely will love Kobi. Do look it up.
Parent - - By george [us] Date 2018-02-03 12:28 PM
Currently reading Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (treadmill reading), The Color of Magic by Terry Pratchett, and have Oliver Sacks' The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat and An Anthropologist on Mars on deck.

I keep every book that I enjoy, because I like to go back and re-read them. I've read Jurassic Park probably 200 times, Dune at least 20 times, and Cryptonomicon 5 or 6 times (it takes a while to get through). I tend to forget details and re-reading gives me an opportunity to revisit them and often discover something I missed previously. I have to go and buy new bookshelves every few years to keep up. For books that I don't enjoy, I typically will sell them in a garage sale or donate to a library or bookstore.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-03 6:33 PM
200 times?!!! :shocker!: Holy hell I can't believe you have that much time to read!

Interesting mix of current reading, although there is a thread.
Parent - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2018-02-04 5:20 AM
Though I haven't read any of the books you mentioned, it did my heart good to know I'm not the only one who re-reads books multiple times.  My most-frequently read list would include: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Lord of the Rings, several Richard Russo and Nick Hornby novels, and Payne Hollow.
Parent - - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2018-02-03 5:16 PM
I culled my book collection when I moved twice in a year and didn't feel like hauling them the second time. :roll: But I do have multiple bookcases with books. I have a lot of classics that I had to read in high school. I have lots of Stephen King including the Dark Tower series. Quite a few James Paterson books too. DH's books are quite different from mine, he has a lot of non-fiction books whereas I favor fiction. I have some college textbooks, but those are in a box in a closet.

I trade books a lot with my mom. :hug: If I need to get rid of books I usually take them to work since we have a small library area for people to bring in books they don't want and take ones they like.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-03 6:42 PM
Moving always is a good excuse for culling. We've been in the same house for 18 years now, but have kept up the habit of constant culling.

Trading with friends and family is cool. :hug: And that's also nice at work. :cool: We had a thread here a few years ago about the little front yard library boxes in some communities. Sharing books with others or otherwise re-using them is a wonderful thing, as precious as good writing is.

One thing interesting that i learned from Fire and Fury is that the president doesn't really read and never really has. Not even one-page memos. I can't imagine going throughout life without reading whether for business or pleasure.
Parent - - By triplejake (The Vampire Lestat) [us] Date 2018-02-05 10:19 AM
Lots of books in the house.  I have arranged things so that immediately on entering the home, a visitor is confronted with a bookcase filled with complex works on philosophy, history and the sciences, along with some of the more difficult Classic Works, to put them ill-at-ease and on the defensive.  :mischief:
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-05 10:26 AM
Warning, you'd not intimidate me with that attempt - I'd likely just dive in and start an interrogation on your views on the work! : pbbt::laugh::wink:
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-05 10:20 AM Edited 2018-02-05 10:27 AM
Yes to everything. I have a room set aside as a "library" with floor-to-ceiling shelves covering all 4 walls, a big table in the middle for spreading out books/work/papers, a soft chair with a reading lamp in a corner, a few nooks... Many of the shelves are filled with books in all categories: botany, astronomy, chemistry, political science, biographies, history, classical world, philosophy, neurology.... nearly every area except cookery. Not much fiction, but there is a smattering of classic mysteries in there.

For books that I like to read but not to keep, I use the public library and its library's extensive ebook collection. Those are the more recently published books, books I'll likely not read again (though I might have liked them), etc. Books I've not read in ages (enjoyed but am no longer inclined to, just have fully absorbed, whatever reason) get donated to the library - books are meant to be read and do not improve by gathering dust on shelves. The library generally sells them at a nominal price in their bookstore to the public and uses the proceeds for the library's own expenses.

The books I keep are books I'll reach for frequently, or books I read occasionally but that are still important to me for some reason, either content, context, background, research, historical value, etc. I'm fairly equal in books and ebooks, as mentioned ebooks are more the newly published matter or old old books that are archival and have been digitised for easy access. I'm currently looking at the digital version of "The Herball, or General Historie of Plants" by John Gerard published in 1636. Remarkable book.

ETA: All this is not to say that books never wander - nearly every room has several stacks scattered throughout, as I tend to read more than one book at a time and in different places. They make their way back to the shelves as time passes....

ETA2: Another reason I keep certain books is that I tend to heavily annotate in ink - lots of responses, thoughts, running commentary on the author's views, my own changes/ways I would respond differently.... and on a book from the library, that would be far from desirable!
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-13 4:17 PM
Holy crap you should be open to the public! :shocker!: Well except maybe not with your annotations. But in any event, that sounds like a great system including your use of the public library that works for you. And probably impressive to visitors as well (never mind 3jake...he was pretending to be pretentious and your system is for you. :cool:)
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-15 11:22 AM
:blush: Using a combination of the public library and my own books works for me, with the goal of not having many recently published books that I read, but only read once, sitting about and taking up space. Also more cost-effective. I know my reading preferences seem odd or boring to some, but it's always been this way, even as a child. I never read much fiction... Visitors, well, they are more likely first struck by the trails of books still floating about :blush: - I'm generally very tidy about everything else, but books seem to always escape from their home!
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-15 4:50 PM
:laugh: I suspect that the pretentious peeps maybe never allow a book to stray too long from its "home" on the shelf. :wink: But I really do like the mental image of your library room. :cool: As well as the trail of books floating about. :laugh:: pbbt:
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-06 10:34 PM
Every room in our house has bookshelves -- except DSBF's because it's a new room and, well, he doesn't read. Not often. The bulk of the collection is in the garage, when we moved in we put shelves on an entire wall and then put a second tier of bookshelves facing those. They really need tidying and winnowing but that's going to be an enormous job.

Right now, finished The Keeper of Lost Things and The Librarian of Auschwitz. I am reading Ghosts of the Tsunami. Have Lilac Girls on deck. Also Risk Financing, Principles of Risk Management, and Insurance Company Operations. I'm teaching 3 classes this semester.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-13 4:21 PM
Whoa what a list of books this month! I also like how you have bookshelves in every room. :cool: We've got bookshelves in three of our rooms at present, but there are few real books on them. :blush:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-07 8:59 PM
I've been culling my collection via Paperback Swap - you join the list, post books you no longer want, and then mail them off to people who request them (you pay shipping). In exchange, you can request different books & whomever has them pays shipping to you.

I've gotten some cool out-of-print resources for the scoutlette troop from here & several books for my eldest geekling who reads voraciously.  It keeps the shelves fresh, and I feel better about not throwing out books.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-13 4:26 PM
All very cool. I never heard of Paperback Swap before. I've trashed a lot of sci-fi novels that the library wouldn't take because they had copies already, and I really hate trashing any book.

If you see this, does Paperback Swap handle hardbound? And when you or some other sender ships a book of any kind, do you pay book rate? I could look it up I suppose, but being lazy will ask you while I'm replying here. :wink:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-13 10:36 PM
You can list anything - hardbound, paperback, spiral bound, audio books. They have a great database that you can enter ISBN & when someone requests it, you get a mailing label to print that computes postage based on media mail rates. You can print e-postage, or use a kiosk at the post office to print exact value stamps.

If you want to try it out, here is a discount link http://www.paperbackswap.com/landing/?r_by=UW1uMWFzSXNmaTQ9

You can search some books to see if they are on someone's wish lists
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-14 5:30 AM
I don’t get it. $20 a year for the time, hassle and money to mail other people books and the hope that books you want to read are available doesn’t seem that great.

You can find almost anything used on Amazon for very little money. Inconvenience of inventorying your own collection and making trips to the post office aside, I don’t see the online book exchange saving money.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-14 8:10 AM
I think it's about a wash on money for the books I get, but it does save time (for me).  It would be different in the mass-market paperback world with lots of print copies everywhere. YMMV, like everything

I like that I can just post a list of books that I want & when they become available, I get an email, rather than checking eBay every week for a new posting of some random short run book. I've found many out of print books on the site that were not available on Amazon or other second-hand sites, making it well worth my effort. 

My older kid does the work (posting, printing, wrapping) for her book habit - she tends to read YA series, and is always stalking the latest release, reads it in two/three days, and then re-posts it to get another book. I'm sure it does save money over buying new releases for every book & our small town library would take several weeks to get a loaned copy.  The post office is weirdly convenient, so I don't mind stopping in to print out a postage stamp on the kiosk. Her turnover is fast enough that the books are still "new" when she's done reading them.
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-15 8:50 AM
I've found many out of print books on the site that were not available on Amazon or other second-hand sites, making it well worth my effort. 

I'm sure it does save money over buying new releases for every book & our small town library would take several weeks to get a loaned copy.

That makes sense. Thanks.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-15 11:23 AM
This sounds like a really interesting service/system. I'd never heard of it before.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-15 4:54 PM
A wash (or even loss) on money makes total sense when books are being read by more eyes, especially younger ones. :happy:
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-13 12:47 PM
Well, since jasz started this thread I'd better reply instead of posting.... : pbbt:

Just finished two fantastic books:  Marlon James's A Brief History of Seven Killings and Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale (on audio).  Just starting Walker Percy's The Moviegoer and A.J. Finn's The Woman in the Window (on audio).  Both a little bit lighter entertainment (the audiobook especially).

We have four huge bookshelves in the living room and one small bookshelf in the dining room.  They are overflowing and we will need to get more someday.  Our nightstands and desks also runneth over.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-13 4:34 PM
:laugh: Yes, thank you. :grin:

Sounds like a nice month. :cool:

You've got a lot of full book space. Do you keep paperbacks? I kind of get the impression that you and s&f largely read hardbound when not audio but I could be wrong about that. btw tell s&f if he doesn't see this himself that we're giving our hardbound Nixon to the public library...not because we didn't like it because we really did...but because it's our custom nowadays to continuously cull.
Parent - By jennyO Date 2018-02-13 4:54 PM
SNF has been reading mainly on his kindle lately.  And I've got him started listening to audiobooks now.  But, no, we hardly ever buy hardbacks.  Most of the ones we have were presents, either to each other or from his mom.  I love to browse at used bookstores and nearly always find things I've been waiting to read.  If there's something in particular I really want (like George Saunders's latest novel, Lincoln in the Bardo), I will preorder the paperback version.  We keep all our books, except the ones we loan to people.  I forgot to mention the several boxes sitting in the garage from our last move (over 6 years ago!_.
Parent - By IB Date 2018-02-14 9:16 AM
So far this month I have read two books and I am currently on a third. The Wolves at the Door: The True Story of America's Greatest Female Spy by Judith Pearson was a quick read. I didn't think much of the author but the story itself was a good one. Next up was a book Whitney's mom loaned me. I really enjoyed The League of Frightened Men by Rex Stout. There was some slang I wasn't entirely sure about but that did not cause a dent in my reading pleasure. I plan to read more from this series. Currently I am reading Jacksonland by Steve Inskeep which is a very interesting book.

There are a couple of shelves with books in the house. One in the living room and another in the spare bedroom. I also have a few boxes full of books in the garage. I pretty much save every book I find or buy. Can't bring myself to just toss any book. I have left a few in Little Free Libraries which I figure gives the book a chance at being read again. Never thought about donating to a library.
Parent - By Elcontador [us] Date 2018-02-21 9:47 PM
We have LOTS of books in the study.  I have a number of books that I've been meaning to read that hopefully I will get around to doing.  At the urging of my father's late cousin,  I have some books by Solzhenitsyn (I think the First Circle, among others), as well as Paul Theroux's Old Railway Bazaar.  I've read a number of his books, and like them, but haven't gotten around to reading that one, yet.

The lastest books I've read were some from friends in the Bayou, mainly about local humor and characters like Boudreax, Thibidoux, Chotile, and Miss Marie.
- - By oitsubob [us] Date 2018-02-03 1:27 PM
We have 8 bookcases, 5 of those are filled with my books that pertain to the period 1914 - 1963. I am a huge history buff, particularly the World Wars and the Cold War. The remains 3 bookcases we just got for my wife's books that are currently in boxes. I keep min 99% of the time and she once done reading a book will donate it to Goodwill or the public library.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-03 6:46 PM
That's awesome! Both you keeping yours and your wife donating. There is no right or wrong answer here, and you've got both covered. :wink:
- - By insistor (needs a bigger dick) Date 2018-02-05 8:24 AM Edited 2018-02-05 8:40 AM
Finished The Handmaid's Tale and now onto Strange Weather by Joe Hill. It is a collection of four short stories that was on sale.

A few years ago I purged almost all of my books and only kept the classics plus a couple personal favs. I'd say I have about 100 physical books on a shelf now vs. 300+ from before. Lately I've only been buying or checking out e-books, I'm pretty much done with physical media at this point (music, movies and books).
Parent - - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2018-02-05 8:39 AM
Just learned that Best Buy was no longer selling cd's.
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-05 9:46 AM
or LaserDiscs.:mutmad:
Parent - - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-05 12:42 PM
Oh--where are the tapes of yesteryear ?
Parent - - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2018-02-05 1:59 PM
Here's the loss, in my way of thinking: Sure, we made the switch from vinyl to tape, and later, cd, but there was a physical substance you could go back to should your Naptered digital copy tragically disappear.  Now, you pay to download it and store it on the cloud, or your device's equivalent of a hard drive.  Now, unless you've gone to the trouble to save it on a disc, your vulnerable.  I don't like it...
Parent - - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-06 7:15 AM
Agree--paper will endure, but the others are ephemeral .
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 7:28 PM
I'm with both of you on that.

But nowadays, digital lives forever as many peeps have learned to their chagrin and downfall. That doesn't help us with books and music, but does (or should) keep politicians and other public figures on their toes. :wink: So far, it apparently hasn't sunken in that much.
Parent - - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-08 8:43 PM
Yeah--it is hard to understand how supposedly intelligent folks leave electronic tracks so often. Maybe hubris and/or arrogance ?
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 9:01 PM
It's got to be hubris and arrogance. I don't think humble peeps have anything to worry about. Except losing our digital music and writings. :mutmad:
- - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-05 9:06 AM
Just now finishing Remains of the Day  by Ishiguro .I'm really enjoying this light read, but profound story about the former  English class structure  Sometimes I can hear Anthony Hopkins playing the propagandist :grin: . Next in line is and yet , a collection of essays by Hitchens..
I have two bookcases with favorites that I save to reread  --Richard Russo, Richard Ford , Annie Proulx (except Barkskins roll:) and some poetry --Billy Collins,Stanley Kunitz and Mary Oliver. Most  other books I donate to the public library or hand off to friends and neighbors .
DW is a huge Kindle fan so she gets no shelves to share. I just can't get used to not holding a book and turning the pages.

Nerd alert : I spent most of my career teaching college chemistry and over the years have picked up some mid and late 19th century chemistry texts. I've been amazed at how much good work work those folks did using deductive reasoning  and analogy. The modern theoretical basis  often just confirms the old ideas.I tried to give my students that sense of evolution.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-05 10:25 AM
Mid-late 19thc. scientific works really are remarkable, both for the authors' deduction/reasoning and for their observational powers. I look at much the same for botany, with some chemistry intermingled in there as well and the ways the two subjects interact... mostly on digital though, as access to the older pages is often not possible.
- - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-05 9:47 AM
I'm about 200 pages into Wizard and Glass, the fourth book of The Dark Tower series.

We have a wall of book shelves in our den, which we fancily call "the green room" because the walls are a dark green. It's divided up into fiction and non fiction sections. There's a few hundred books there. I have a bunch of Stephen King paperbacks in a closet.

I reread books pretty frequently so I don't feel bad about keeping books, it's not like they are just set down to rot.

We have a Little Library in our yard. Initially we stocked it, and we still do some curating, but for the most part it is self sufficient. There's a lot of kids in the neighborhood so it is usually about 70-90% children's books. a lot of people with strollers stop by. We have about three copier paper boxes in our basement full of books for the the Little Library that we cycle in and out.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-06 5:57 PM
That's all very cool. From the "green room" to re-reading and especially to the Little Library. I remember when you or someone started a thread about little libraries a few years ago and I'm glad to hear it's still going. :cool:
- - By cowboyjunkie Date 2018-02-05 1:57 PM
I'm reading A Personal History by Kathrine Graham. Not too far in. Reading about her parents and her younger years. It's interesting so far. Not only her life, but what the country was like in the early 1900's.

I have a book shelf in the living room and a smaller one up in the guest room. I keep books by authors and poets I like and my running logs are on those shelves too. Sometimes I will go back and re-read some of my favorite authors. Not often though. I have some gardening books and bird books mixed in. I don't like to have a lot of "stuff" around. The books I don't want to keep I give to friends and tell them to pass them on. I have a box of books accumulating that I know I don't want to keep and will recycle those.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-06 6:05 PM
I have running logs from years past also including annotated bibs etc. on shelves too, not for display but out of the way. In recent years, I've stopped writing and printing out logs as well as annotating bibs so that collection is incomplete. :laugh: My wife and I are with you on not liking to collect too much "stuff" and we've been purging all kinds of things from books to other "collectables" in recent years including things our parents collected. It's too easy to collect and save a lot of stuff for no reason.
Parent - By Gunna [is] Date 2018-02-15 5:57 AM
I read the A Personal History some years ago. I thought it was interesting how she was brought up, having no idea that clothes needed to be washed etc. because the servants did it for them! Also learned a bit about manio-depressive disorder.
- - By mkh (Mr. Fashionista) Date 2018-02-07 11:05 AM
Reading Six Wakes what's supposed to be a sci-fi murder mystery. It's eh so far. Makes you appreciate good sci fi writing.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 7:16 PM
I love sci-fi but on your recommendation I'll skip that one.
- - By tahoeblue (spamkiller) Date 2018-02-07 1:06 PM
When I got tired of piles of books on the floor cluttering things up I went to a used furniture warehouse and found some bookshelves that had been pulled out of a law office.  Each unit is 3 feet wide and floor to ceiling - so 6 shelves each.  I got 10 of them.  I built them into an office in the house.  They are all filled with books and I still have piles of books on the floor cluttering things up.
Parent - - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-07 1:57 PM
Murphy's Third Law: the number of books in a collection always exceeds the shelf space available.
Parent - By tahoeblue (spamkiller) Date 2018-02-08 12:44 AM
Tru dat!
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-15 11:23 AM
:laugh:
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 7:17 PM
:laugh: The solution is more shelves. :wink:
- - By SRoo Date 2018-02-07 1:42 PM
We have nine bookcases in our home, plus three end tables that are mini bookshelves, plus the floor of my husband's mancave and numerous boxes of books in the basement.  My son and I joke that DH will die in a book-alanche some day and then we will take all of his books to the memorial service as gifts for people that show up.  Only 6 book cases and one end table are exclusively DH's books.  The lad has two and I have one.  I'm sitting in our living room at the moment and there are ten books on or near the coffee table.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 7:20 PM
That's funny. Horizontal surfaces of all kinds, and baskets, and other spaces all can hold books. And magazines. Maybe we should have houses with no horizontal surfaces.:wtf:
Parent - - By SRoo Date 2018-02-08 8:04 PM
If one of his worst habits is buying too many books, I suppose I am a lucky woman.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 8:07 PM
Yeah, that's not a bad habit at all.
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-13 3:43 PM
I know the feeling of all horizontal spaces seeming to end up with books. I bought a new cocktail table 2 weeks ago, and it is already covered in papers and books, along with pens/ink for notes. Before its arrival, the material was on the floor in stacks (horizontal and vertical!). End tables, entry tables, the dining table, sideboard, night stands, headboard shelves.... all with books being read or to-be-read shortly.... or often referenced for a pending project.... or potentially useful.... or.... :laugh::blush:
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-13 4:41 PM
:laugh:
Parent - - By Gunna [is] Date 2018-02-15 5:58 AM
I'm like your husband. :blush: Luckily I bought a Kindle some years ago so at least the pile isn't growing (much).
Parent - - By SRoo Date 2018-02-15 9:02 AM
He doesn't like ebooks.  :cry:
Parent - By ironjen Date 2018-02-15 12:21 PM
I hated ebooks. The only reason I like them now is that when my TM broke the new one was supposed to have a wide enough lip to hold a book and it doesn't so I had to buy a kindle : pbbt::laugh: No lie. I have most of the books in our house (many many shelves and boxes) but now I only buy those books that I buy in HC vs mass and anything I would have bought in mass or trade is bought for the kindle instead. This means I often have more than one book going at a time though which really isn't an issue. I drive my husband up the wall because he is very definitely a no clutter no mess kinda dude.
Parent - By Gunna [is] Date 2018-02-15 1:33 PM
Too bad, I love them! Much cheaper, I can get whatever I want instantly (i.e. books in English), no dusting, no space-hogging and so much ligther to hold.
- - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-07 9:03 PM
Reading Pandora's Lab in case I needed to be put in my place about advancing technology for the sake of it. So far, I've learned that Opiates are the worst drug ever invented & most lied about drug ever; and that margarine is the most ridiculously lied about fat. The summary is basically - humans are stupid, don't believe anything anyone tells you.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 7:22 PM
Oooh I think that I'll like that book.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 7:44 PM
Eugenics chapter is depressing.
The chapter on chemical fertilizers included their ties to chemical weapons.
Humans suck.

This is a great book to read just before I defend my machine learning research...I wonder what evil incarnate my work will contribute to later?
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 8:42 PM
I want to read it all the more.

You've probably read Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan, something recommended by gazelle a few years ago and a great read if somewhat disturbing. You may want to read it if you haven't.

We seem to be on the same wavelength, but I don't think I'm quite as cynical as you. Only *some* humans, mostly in the 1%, suck. : pbbt:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 8:45 PM
Pretty sure we all suck. Just in varying degrees of horribleness.
I think I did read that a couple years ago. Not inclined to read another disturbing book right away after this. I need some fluff.
Parent - - By SRoo Date 2018-02-08 8:51 PM
I agree with your assessment.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 9:31 PM
which part, the fluff :laugh::wtf:
Parent - By SRoo Date 2018-02-09 6:02 AM
I was thinking about the people part, but your choice of reading this week should be fluff.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 9:06 PM
See, you're way too cynical! :laugh: (Kidding...I totally get it, and also understand the need for fluff now and again)
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 9:31 PM
I'm three weeks from my dissertation defense and spent two hours today in a panic because "general council requires this form be submitted with original signatures." You know, the form that schedules the time and location of the defense, and the signatures that require multiple continents & states due to travel plans of my committee. We found a way around it by emailing the scanned document to everyone and the committee emailing the same scanned document back :roll:.

I think I'm doing rather well to control my cynicism at the moment. : pbbt:
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 9:50 PM
Oh geez that's pretty awful. But hey, cynicism is a tool for staying calm. :wink:: pbbt: Seriously, you've got things under control and totally will rock your defense. :cool: Just keep smiling. :happy:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-08 9:54 PM
: pbbt: calm is not in my vocabulary this week. :roll:  To paraphrase my boss "Just because I'm cynical doesn't mean that I'm wrong"
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-08 10:27 PM
:laugh:
Parent - By SRoo Date 2018-02-09 6:02 AM
:shocker!:  Do you work for my husband?
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-09 3:39 PM
Again, very true.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-09 3:39 PM
I entirely agree. It is only a matter of degrees of horrid-ness; no one seems to escape it entirely.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-20 6:14 PM
It came from Amazon yesterday and I'm already halfway through. Entrancing book with good science among other good writing, and your summary assessment is pretty spot on. :meh:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2018-02-21 7:24 AM
Depressing, isn't it? :meh:

Glad you are <enjoying?> it. I did appreciate the real science - beyond credibility, it is educational.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-23 6:26 PM
Yes it is. :meh: But quite enlightening and educational on a lot of levels...science, economics, medicine, politics, marketing, history, human nature and other things...and I thought that I'd seen it all.

Done with the book now, I really did enjoy the writing, good factual information and messages. :cool: But I did have a problem with the last third of the book, how he lapsed into conclusions without the supporting facts and/or attributions, something which he rails against subtly and not-so-subtly throughout the book. I especially disliked how he kind of demonized Rachel Carson as one of his 7 science mistakes when she died way before DDT was banned and his facts on mosquito deaths and connection to Carson was exceptionally weak. No way that she and the resulting environmental effort over the next decade should have been one of the 7 since that is a story of science gone right, not wrong.

I'm really glad that I read this book, so thanks. :happy:
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2018-02-25 5:45 AM
Now I'm even more interested... will look for it at the library. Thanks to you both.
- - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-13 1:52 PM
i'm halfway through House of Leaves.

The Beard in 3..2...
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-13 3:27 PM
AWESOME!
Parent - By mkh (Mr. Fashionista) Date 2018-02-15 1:41 PM
:cool:
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-16 11:23 AM
There's a Facebook reading club currently going on for HoL.
Parent - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-16 11:32 AM
that sounds thrilling :meh:

:laugh::laugh:: pbbt:
Parent - - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-18 11:55 AM
so i've reached the Appendices. i'm confused
Parent - - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-20 3:24 PM
I'm done!
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-20 4:52 PM
And?
Parent - - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-20 5:55 PM
It was good. Not sure I got it all but that is ok. Definitely an innovative style of writing and composing a novel.
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-21 6:17 AM
To paraphrase - it changed Adam’s life. :cool:
Parent - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-21 7:13 PM
I wouldn't go that far.
Parent - - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-27 6:49 AM
I received The Familiar Vol 1 last week. :shocker!:
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-27 7:31 AM
It’s awesome. Volume 1 starts off slowly so don’t be discouraged.

Sadly, he has to take a break from the series after five volumes. Sales just weren’t what they needed to be to keep going. Obviously there’s a lot of unfinished business at this point but at least volumes 1-5 make up a “season” and there is an ending of sorts. It’s VERY much worth reading.
Parent - - By insistor (needs a bigger dick) Date 2018-02-27 7:36 AM
Shocking that a complicated 26 book series, which sees each book at 500+ pages, wouldn't sell well
Parent - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-27 8:01 AM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-27 11:52 AM
I'm disappointed but not surprised.

I think that advertising the number of volumes up front, while honest, was a mistake that scared a lot of potential readers away.

Also, while each book is hefty in size, the actual amount of text amounts to a more manageable size.

You don't have to be a mental giant like adam, mkh or me to read these books.
Parent - - By adamswims (Gone Now Adam! You pick what you want.) Date 2018-02-27 11:55 AM
so back to House of Leaves...wtf was going on there. Was the story "written" by the crazy mom? Was Zampano Johnny Truants dad? How did Navidson burn a copy of the book?
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-27 12:36 PM Edited 2018-02-27 12:50 PM
Yes. : pbbt:

I've read the book a couple (few?) times and have noticed new things, had different questions each time. There's a lot going on and while much of it makes sense other parts are kind of bewildering, which I like. The book comes together as a whole to create a mood. The non linear plot, overlapping characters that may or may not even be real, a house that maybe doesn't even exist, etc. All of these create a feeling of disconnectedness, confusion. There's themes of parent/child relations, self discovery, redemption, depression, etc. but I think that the overarching theme is that you make it what you want it to be, you get what you put in.

HoL is really an experience. It can be as deep as the reader wants. Some will read it and see a fairly unique haunted house story. Some will see a story of family dynamics/failings. Some will see a love story. Some will see it as an allegory to obsession, or depression, or something totally different. Some will quickly read through it and not give it much thought. Others will delve into online forums, related works, and try to find the answer to it all.

I think that it is fair to say that, more than any other book that I've ever read, HoL and what it is about is going to be unique to each reader.
Parent - - By mkh (Mr. Fashionista) Date 2018-02-27 12:13 PM
Hey, at least two people in the upper mid west read them......I didn't buy them though, so I'm the problem.
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-27 12:52 PM
If I remember correctly, you did buy a copy of Fifty Year Sword at the book tour stop though.:cool:
Parent - - By mkh (Mr. Fashionista) Date 2018-02-27 12:58 PM
I did! I also own House of Leaves and Only Revolutions. :cool:
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-27 1:35 PM
:cool:
- - By foggydoggy [us] Date 2018-02-13 7:21 PM
I found McDougall's book about the Tarahumara.  Good read though I think at times he's sensationalizing.  The most interesting part was realizing I've met some of the people mentioned in the book.  (I'm sure JennyO and SNF know even more of them.)   Like I said... good read but sometimes the author sensationalizes I a little.  I also just finished a Dick Francis book and I've spent hours pouring over a 30 page technical spec. for work.
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-14 12:43 PM
That's the Born to Run book, right?  We know the "White Witch" (Ann Trason) pretty well.  She has paced both of us in 100s, watched our dog, etc.  She's a trip.  A very nice generous person but also a bit, um, eccentric.  That's really it.  We used to see Jenn Shelton at races years back but don't know her.  Oh, and Scott Jurek gave me one of his homemade smoothies when I was sucking wind right after finishing Pine to Palm 100. :laugh:  Very nice guy.
Parent - - By foggydoggy [us] Date 2018-02-20 12:55 PM
That's the one.

I've met Ann Trason once.  (We got our shoes thrown up while working the finish chute at a Tamalpa XC race).  She was seriously hurting at the time but was very nice.
I ran a couple miles with Marshall Ulrich during the filming of "Running Across America." I ended up on the cutting room floor but had a nice conversation with him. 
A couple other characters mentioned were the Dirt Diva (Catra Corbett) and Tamalpans Mike Sweeney and Sunny Blende who I've met a various races

I think most folks would consider anyone who runs 100 mile voluntary to be umm eccentric.... but in a very nice way. The world needs far more unique quirky people.
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-20 1:29 PM
Wait ... Ann threw up on your shoes?! :laugh::laugh:  Oh man.

Even among ultrarunners, Ann is pretty eccentric.  But she's hitting her stride these days and seems much happier than back when she was competing (and married).
Parent - - By foggydoggy [us] Date 2018-02-20 6:50 PM
NO! She and I were pulling bib tags at the finish chute and both got our shoes thrown up on!!!!
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-20 11:40 PM
Name(s) of the miserable finishers withheld to protect the identity of the spewer?
- - By Gunna [is] Date 2018-02-15 6:02 AM
I picked up a book recently by Ian McEwan, one of my favorite authors. It's called Nutshell and has a very interesting point of view, it's told from the perspective of a fetus! Very interesting and funny at times and manages to discuss many things despite the cramped circumstances of the main character. Totally recommend it.
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-15 4:25 PM
I enjoyed that one.  I like all of his books. :happy:
Parent - By Gunna [is] Date 2018-02-15 4:35 PM
Yes, he's good. And always trying new things.
- By insistor (needs a bigger dick) Date 2018-02-15 9:15 AM
Let's see...

Finished Wonder with my kids and it was AMAZING. Loved reading that with them. I'm actually sad it's over. We watched the movie afterward and I was so happy when I asked my youngest if he liked the movie or book better and he said "the book, they left out a bunch of stuff from that". It was also cool to see them mention the differences during the movie, even small things. Makes me realize they actually were taking it all in as we read it. We're onto the latest Diary of a Wimpy Kid book now. While not as good as Wonder we laugh and laugh at Diary so it's fun.

I finished Strange Weather by Joe Hill and thought it was just ok. It was a book of 4 longer short stories where two of them were pretty good and two were just ok.

I've started the audiobook of The Road to Jonestown: Jim Jones and Peoples Temple and will probably also start American Gods by Neil Gaiman
- - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2018-02-15 12:26 PM
Just finished In The Woods by Tana French on audio. It is the story of a boy whose 2 friends go missing in the woods when he was a kid (the 3 of them went into the woods, he was the only one who came out and he doesn't remember anything), and later in life when he is a police officer, he is called to a case of a dead girl in those same woods. No one knows he is the kid whose friends disappeared years earlier. It's a good listen, but I chose the unabridged 20-hour version of the book and it dragged at the end. I didn't particularly like the ending since it didn't give me all the answers I wanted :roll: but overall it's a good story. And I just found out the author has a series of books with the same characters, yay! 4/5 stars.
Parent - - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-16 11:01 AM
I really enjoyed In The Woods and have read all her other books. IMHO, her stories are uneven--some great , one in particular,The Likeness seemed implausible. I'd  be interested in your reviews.
Parent - By skigirl Date 2018-02-16 11:08 AM
I agree - some of her books are terrific, others notsomuch.  And some are great and not-great within the same book - I found the first two-thirds of The Secret Place really good: gripping, very insightful about the lives of teenage girls, and then the last third just dragged on and on and got increasingly implausible and I just wanted to be done.
Parent - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2018-02-16 12:40 PM
I'll put it on the list. Thanks!
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-16 12:34 PM
I liked that whole series and appreciated that the novels are a lot more than straightforward whodunnits.  My favorite was probably Secret Place because I just loved Frank Mackey's character (even though I saw the ending coming from a mile off).  The Trespasser was also really excellent.
Parent - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2018-02-16 12:41 PM
Both are now on my list. Thanks!
Parent - By cowboyjunkie Date 2018-02-27 7:29 AM
The Trespasser was so good. I really enjoyed that one.
- - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-16 11:27 AM Edited 2018-02-16 11:29 AM
I'm down to the last 100 or so pages of Wizard and Glass. I've liked this one more each time that I've read it. I'd still place it mid pack (at best) in the series but I can see the importance of it for the story.

I'm deciding if I should read The Wind Through the Keyhole next or move directly to Wolves of the Calla and then return to TWTTK once I'm done with the series. It's the same dilemma that people have when arguing over what order to watch the Star Wars movies - chronological to the story or the order that they were released.
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-16 12:32 PM
I didn't include TWTTK in my recent reread of the series.  I probably should have, but it just felt like an add-on.  If you're going to get super-inclusive, though, you might also add the short story The Little Sisters of Eluria.
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-16 12:56 PM
You've just given me a new plan. I'll reread Little Sisters next. It happens after the events in Wizard and Glass but before the events in The Gunslinger. Reading it after WAG seems to make sense.

Now I can prolong my need to decide what to do about TWTTK.

For what it is worth, I didn't care a whole lot for TWTTK the first time that I read it. It just didn't feel like a Dark Tower story to me.

On a related note - have you ever read any of the DT comics? If so, are they worth reading?
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-16 1:00 PM
I felt the same way about Keyhole.

I have 3 of the comics, I think.  I bought them mostly because I'm a Tower geek.  I wouldn't say the story is anything new or very detailed, but the illustrations are GORGEOUS.  They were expensive, though, so I didn't try to collect them or anything.
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-16 1:18 PM
The used prices on the Omnibus aren't too terrible.

I'm tempted to get it at some point.
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-16 10:20 PM
IIRC The Wind Through The Keyhole wasn't crucial to the saga. It was an add-on that didn't include information helpful for understanding the entire story.
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-20 8:34 AM
That's right.

It's Roland telling a story from his youth about a shape shifting killer. While telling this story he also tells of a story that was told within that story. it doesn't advance the overall DT plot at all. Still, I think that I will read it next.
Parent - - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-21 10:55 AM
I’m about 20% into TWTTK. I don’t know how many pages that amounts to because Kindles suck balls.

I’m enjoying it a lot more than the first time that I read it. I think it’s because I knew is it’s a young Roland story going in.

I read Little Sisters of Eluria after Wizard and Glass so this is a nice young Roland break from the main story.

I’m already excited for Wolves of the Calla, one of my favorites in the series.
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-24 9:14 AM
I have to take back what I said about The Wind Theough the Keyhole. I’m about 80% through and have liked it. Sure, it’s not really a Dark Tower story and it doesn’t impact the main plot but on its own it’s a very enjoyable read, both the story and the story within a story. It gives a little more insight into the traditions and legends of Mid-World.
- - By gadget girl Date 2018-02-16 1:19 PM
I just finished Scaramouche by Rafael Sabatini a delightful little bon bon of a novel set in during the French Revolution.  A somewhat preposterous plot, but an incredibly likeable hero and very well written.  Reminiscent of the books of Dumas, though Sabatini is no Dumbass  ahahahahahaha.
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-16 4:46 PM
Can I be The Beard here and ask if you had Bohemian Rhapsody in your head the whole time you read it? :wink:
Parent - By sideshowbob Date 2018-02-16 9:53 PM
:laugh: POTD
Parent - By gadget girl Date 2018-02-20 12:07 PM
:laugh::laugh:
- By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-16 10:21 PM
Just finished The Girl From the Train. Glad I got it out of the library rather than spending money for it. Anything published by Zondervan is going to wind up being painfully Christian. I'm a churchgoer and I still found the message about as subtle as a 2x4.
- - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2018-02-20 11:13 AM
A friend loaned me Bench of Despair by Dallas Smith.  It's a book about his second Vol State run.  I enjoyed reliving my two experiences through his writing.

Wild by Cheryl Strayed.  I didn't like her, her writing, or the book until about page 2, and then I was hooked.  Since it was a library copy, I couldn't tear out the pages and burn them as I went.

Stronger by Jeff Bauman.  I'd seen the movies over the holidays.  The book is bringing some tears to my eyes in too many spots!
Parent - By jennyO Date 2018-02-20 12:07 PM

>Since it was a library copy, I couldn't tear out the pages and burn them as I went.


:laugh:
- - By jennyO Date 2018-02-20 12:08 PM
I just did not like/could not get into The Moviegoer.  I was reading SNF's copy.  Once I found out he was lukewarm on it, too, and it never improved, I set it aside.  Started George Saunders's Lincoln in the Bardo and am already halfway through. :shocker!:  Loving it so much.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-20 6:20 PM
I peeked at a preview of the Saunders novel and that's now on my list, thanks!
Parent - - By jennyO Date 2018-02-22 12:14 PM
The snippets of real historical accounts mixed in with some fantasical (phantasmagorical) fiction are really neat.  He completely reimagines the form of a "novel."  Might be too experimental for some tastes, but I'm very impressed.  And it still manages to paint a complex, evocative portrait of the era and of Lincoln.
Parent - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2018-02-24 8:40 PM
The "experimental" flavor of his descriptions is exactly why I just ordered it. Well, and also because of my fascination with the era and of Lincoln. To get free shipping, I also ordered a couple sci-fi novels and we'll be traveling, so I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it but I'm looking forward to this one, thanks. :happy:
Parent - By jennyO Date 2018-02-26 6:21 PM
Thought I'd read a third Booker Prize winner in a row, so I started Howard Jacobson's The Finkler Question.  TBH, it hasn't really grabbed me so far, but I will persist.  I heard a guideline once that you should give a book 100 pages.  If you still don't like it at that point, it's fine to stop, and you'll know you've given it a fair chance.

Also started listening to The Wife Between Us.  I like the whole genre of chick-lit/mystery/suspense for audiobooks.  Such a guilty pleasure that makes cleaning the house, folding laundry, etc., much more enjoyable.
- By Arimathea [us] Date 2018-02-23 2:11 PM
Heading back to the library to return Girl in the Blue Coat by Monica Hesse, Sinkin Spells, Hot Flashes, Fits and Cravins by Ernest Mickler (he also wrote White Trash Cooking), and Winter of Ice and Iron by Rachel Neumeier. 

Blue Coat: YA Holocaust fiction, Dutch teenager gets caught up in the Resistance. Not bad. 
Sinkin Spells: hilarious vignettes and some interesting recipes. (Also some recipes that are only interesting from the "oh my Lord people actually eat this?!" point of view. Let's just say that when I make buttercream frosting I don't usually start with a can of butter flavored Crisco.)
Winter: Ironjen, I think you would like this one a lot. Romantic SF/fantasy. My usual criticism for fantasy: why is it that just about every series is set in a time period before the invention of gunpowder? Almost every fantasy series features people shooting bows and arrows but not guns, and riding in carriages and on horses but not in any type of self-propelled conveyance. Businesses seem to be small. And we can usually spot the heroine because she's no good at sewing which girls are supposed to be able to do (not so in this book though, she can embroider). In addition, despite the vaguely medieval/Renaissance setting for most of them somehow the protagonists seem to be eating plenty of fruits and vegetables, brushing their teeth, and bathing regularly.
- By Tommeke Date 2018-02-25 8:45 AM
finished part 1 of 2 of Killing Commendatore by Murakami.
Typical Murakami story, I was a bit worried that he would go off heavy in the magic realism (and there definitely is that), but he kept it moderate for now :)
Starting the second book now, I'm anxious to see how the story develops.

In the mean time, I've been reading 2 books from a Flemish author. He's very famous here but since his notoriety stops at the border, I won't bore you with the details :wink:
- By neustkg (Important) Date 2018-02-27 7:40 AM
I judge a library by it's magazines.  My local library used to carry Ski magazine, but it recently dropped a few of them, including Ski :mutmad: (I am subscribing now).  I do like to check out magazines that I normally would not subscribe to.
- - By mkh (Mr. Fashionista) Date 2018-02-27 12:13 PM
Just started Shoe Dog. I'm not sure I'm going to like this.
Parent - By The Beard (is wearing Arm Panties) [us] Date 2018-02-27 12:37 PM
It's okay but there's nothing new for anyone that has even a rough idea of Nike's beginnings.
Up Topic General / Letters and Opinions / February Book Thread and extra Library Question

Powered by mwForum © 1999-2015 Markus Wichitill