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- - By judyruns Date 2017-11-29 7:40 AM
Parent - - By judyruns Date 2017-11-29 7:44 AM
Late night calls are unnerving for me but late last night I got a robocall. It was an Amber Alert for a cat. Are communities doing these for pets?
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-29 7:53 AM

I truly, sincerely, hope not! 

Besides the automatic weather warnings on my phone, I get text messages for crimes on campus, Amber (child) & Silver (Senior citizen) alerts, and alerts for anything that happens in the County school system my children attend. Can you spell "alarm fatigue"?

Case in point...I received no fewer than six reports (news, facebook, friends, roadway signs, etc) about the missing 3 year old this week before ever hearing that the child went missing from North Carolina (for the record, I'm in WI).
Parent - - By judyruns Date 2017-11-29 8:44 AM
I suspect we are over connected. I can understand an alarm for vulnerable humans, but house cats? They are always ready to escape. (Prior experience :laugh:)
Parent - By kelly_v Date 2017-11-29 11:52 AM
I've never heard of an alert for a cat (or any animal). that is ridiculous and a good reason to get people to ignore legitimate alerts
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2017-11-29 1:04 PM
:shocker!: What? While a missing pet is a big deal I think an Amber Alert is a bit much and would potentially take away from the urgency of a child Amber Alert.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-29 9:33 AM
Wednesday Pot Stirring Question...

At what point should a "statute of limitations" be invoked for (non-criminal) punishment of public figures? The criminal justice system has defined limits for punishing crimes, but I'm referring to the public smearing of individuals for something that happened decades later & can no longer be punished by law.

Can a person change from being "bad" as a youth or twenty-something, to "upstanding citizen" in their middle age years? 
- if Yes - how do we punish them for past crimes or determine if they have been punished enough & have repented sufficiently?
- if No - does this last forever, regardless of atonement attempts?  What is the criteria?
Parent - - By Zipper [us] Date 2017-11-29 10:40 AM
On legal questions, I have lately encountered reason to think the statute of limitations for rape should be open for life. But that is a legal thing.

On a non-legal front...that is a tough question to wrestle with. I don't think adults should necessarily be flogged decades later for poor judgment in behavior before about age 23, which is when biology says our brains mature to the "adult" level. But that is a slippery thing to argue, because it requires defining poor behavior (the standards for which can change drastically over time, so that something considered okay for someone in their teen years may alter completely by the time they are in their 40s); and then it requires looking at patterns of behavior for the person since that time. Have they evolved? Have they made different choices? How much does that matter?

One case in point is that my dad in the 50s, as a young conservative and someone with a family military tradition, enrolled in a military college, used to go "fag bashing" with classmates. They targeted long-haired hippies and guys who looked or acted gay. That was par for societal norms at the time, and in some circles even considered upstanding behavior.

Norms have changed since then. His behavior then is considered abhorrent today. Should he be punished for it? Does it matter that he pretty much still holds the same ugly views about hippies and "fags"? Or does it matter more that his behavior has altered so that he no longer chooses to assault those he thinks are aberrant? Do we prosecute beliefs or actual behavior?
Parent - - By newfmrs Date 2017-11-29 11:52 AM
I think along some similar lines other than I've heard it's about 25 for frontal lobe to finish maturing.

There were times when things were different and acceptable.  I'm not suggesting they should have been acceptable but yes things were different and it's hard to know/predict how much was the environment someone was in/raised in that contributed.

I was thinking along the lines of a different situation but similar in interpretation (at least to me).  Growing up, our first cat was declawed.  My mom made the decision to declaw.  It was the 80s.  We did not declaw any future cats.  My mom (family in general) was not a BAD pet owner.  If she were to ever try to adopt from a rescue group, I know some ask if you ever declawed a cat.  I don't think she should be denied because she did do it once.  In her case, it was not being properly informed.  When we got another cat, a different vet told my mom what declawing actually does to a cat and she decided she'd not do that again in the future.  If she would have known then what she knows now, she would not have declawed.  I think in those scenarios sure, a person might have done something that they would never do again in the future.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-29 12:02 PM
Good example - If tomorrow a law is passed banning declawing, should we publicly flog all the pet owners (my family included) that had declawed cats 20 years ago?
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-29 11:59 AM

>>  Do we prosecute beliefs or actual behavior?

That is another excellent question.  If we prosecute racists that merely think and speak racial ideas (general speech "I hate Wobegonians", not directed at individuals "You are filth, because you are Wobegonian"), how do we decide that the belief is "good" or "bad"? As you note, those standards change over time.

I think the "hate crime" riders on a lot of laws that add to the penalty if it is defined as a "hate crime" muddy this distinction.  Murder is murder and should be punished, same for assault and battery, theft, vandalism, etc.  I have difficulty assigning more punishment because of an arbitrary standard at the moment defining what is or is not "hate".
Parent - By SRoo Date 2017-11-29 12:19 PM
I agree with your hate crime comment.
Parent - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-11-29 7:55 PM
ditto.  Hitting someone is wrong, period.  I don't care why you did it. : pbbt:
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-11-29 1:07 PM
Wow. Good questions.

I think yes, people can change, BUT they can change in either direction. (Witness last Friday's discussion about an aging parent whose behavior towards family members is becoming abusive as the person gets older.)

Many of us do very stupid things as adolescents. Those that survive, and thankfully most do, prefer to let such behavior recede and eventually disappear. But I also think that technology is changing faster than people do, and this is only going to get worse in the next few years. How many of the twentysomethings are going to want to see their old MySpace postings publicized?

Yes, the person can change. Should they be publicly pilloried for (noncriminal or unprovable) acts, often decades ago? I don't know. I think so much depends on the individual circumstances.

This isn't new. Remember Douglas Ginsburg? Nominated for the Supreme Court in 1987 at the age of 41, to replace Lewis Powell, and withdrew his name for consideration after a number of questions arose about his background. What concerned people most? He had smoked marijuana several times, including after he became a professor at Harvard Law in the late 1970s. He's a Senior United States Circuit Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, but he's always going to be Judge Ginsburg, never Justice Ginsburg. And Kimba Wood? Still a judge, on senior status, but rejected as a justice because she had hired a nanny whose papers were not in order even though a) she had paid taxes on the nanny's wages and b) what she did was not illegal at the time.

I think people can change, but I think some actions are always going to follow them. Should we forgive? Possibly. Can we forget? Probably not.
Parent - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-11-29 8:07 PM
been thinking about this a lot too. :hug:

I have to believe in change and forgiveness.  That it's possible for someone to be a stupid kid and grow into a responsible adult.  I also have to believe that sometimes adults make mistakes too and that doesn't necessarily make them an awful person.

Obviously there are caveats like heck to all this, and bigger discussions about "punishment" vs "deterrence" vs "rehabilitation" and the merits of each.
Parent - - By newfmrs Date 2017-11-29 1:12 PM
It is still in the 80s here during the day.  Way too hot for end of Nov.  I will say it is nice for the little ones because we still can get out after school for the playground, ride bikes, etc.  I think one of the nicest things is it stays lighter a little longer here than I'm used to at this time of year (I know the flipside is it won't be as long of daylight in summer but that particular tradeoff is worth it).  About half the moms at DS2's preschool are now wearing pants, long-sleeves, adn sometimes sweaters.  I'm still in shorts and a tank top.  Wonder how long until I'm an 80 degrees out sweater wearer???  Funny to see palm trees decorated with lights including at our house!  I have most holiday stuff done since DH is gone this week and next on a business trip, then he returns and a few days later is surgery for me. 

DD1 keeps talking about applying to transfer to a college down here.  I'm not sure what advice (if any) to give her.  She seems to keep looking to me to give her my opinion.  She will be finishing up two years in the spring so she'd transfer after two years.  In general, she likes her university, has a group of friends, and is on the swim team.  I almost feel like I'd hate to have it interrupt the flow of things for her.  I told her to consider here for grad school and really think about everything that goes along with transferring esp if she currently likes her school.  I pay for her to fly down during breaks and things but I guess she would prefer to be within driving distance of us.  I'd love to have her closer too but wouldn't want to jeopardize any of the current mojo she has going in the positive at school.  She had a difficult first semester so I don't want that to happen again if she transfers.  Anyone transfer even when they liked previous college?  Any other things I should tell her to consider.  I have a feeling it will be popular discussion at Christmas break.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-29 1:19 PM
I transferred after 2 years.

She should consider that not every college will accept transfer credits from other schools.  She may need to re-take classes the school never honors transfer credit for (engineering ethics, speech, and psychology for me...:meh:).  Her new school may require 51% of credits to be taken there to issue a diploma, requiring additional electives to be taken to "fill in" the necessary minimums.  The new school may have a lock-step scheduling approach that is different from the old school, putting her out of sync with her classmates (I had to take a 200-level DC motors class as a 5th year senior because it always conflicted with a different core class).  Transferring almost always delays graduation, my 5th year only included 1 class per semester & a senior design project, but those classes could not be taken prior to that year due to conflicts.

Her financial aid may be affected, I don't know enough about the new system to speak coherently on the impact.
Parent - By newfmrs Date 2017-11-29 1:36 PM
Thanks.  We did talk about maybe not all credits would transfer but I need to put it in terms to her that it may require an extra year if prereqs don't line up as was your case.
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2017-11-29 1:18 PM
I am grading papers for a master's course I am teaching and I am ready to smack my head against the wall, how many times and different ways can I explain that a project outcome is not the process of changing something but what what you hope will change. Deep breath.
- - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 11:39 AM
My 16-year-old daughter wants to talk to our doctor about getting fitted with an IUD.  Her period is irregular, but she is noticing a pattern that the day before it starts she gets really dizzy and feels unwell.  On Sunday she DNF-ed a biathlon race (she reached a point of being so dizzy she couldn't keep skiing) and then on Monday, sure enough, her period started.  She is outraged about being at the mercy of a biological process she sees no benefit to, and pissed off about having had to DNF the race.  A friend of hers has a IUD and never gets a period any more, and 2.0 thinks that sounds like a really good thing. 

I don't know much about IUDs, other than what I've read on this forum over the years, and am slightly overwhelmed by the prospect of my baby girl getting an IUD as it seems too much like acknowledging that she is an adult.  I'm more emotional about this than I would normally be, probably, because I'm visiting my dad right now and having discussions about end-of-life stuff.

On that topic - thanks again for all your advice a few days ago about what I need to ask him.  That was all really helpful.  It's also been helpful for me to mentally reframe "end-of-life" as not being, my dad is going to die in the next five minutes, but more like, he's at the end of his life but that is a stage of life that could last for several years.  That has de-emotionalised things to some extent for me.  Although, yesterday I was feeling like, ooh, I'm handling this so well, I'm not breaking down at all, go me, and then, the minute I left his apartment to walk over to the gym for a quick workout, I burst into tears.  : pbbt:

ETA: I posted this to ask for advice/thoughts about IUDs.  I see I forgot to specify that.  Please tell me anything you think would be helpful.
Parent - - By SRoo Date 2017-11-29 11:47 AM
Naturally I am not going to be helpful at all, but I think it is a good sign that your daughter feels able to have these kinds of conversations with you.  Parenting win!

And it is completely understandable that you had a burst of emotion.
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:23 PM
Parent - - By kelly_v Date 2017-11-29 11:58 AM
wait, wait 2.0 is 16?!?!?!

I know nothing about kids or teenagers, but I did have an IUD put in back in January. FWIW mine was at my 6 week post-partum checkup so things were a bit different but I did have bleeding almost daily for another 5-6 weeks.  Then no period at all although I could notice some symptoms I think and then about 2 months ago I started having a period again. So while it was a nice 6 months of no period it is back. My Dr. who put it in said she had bleeding for like 3 months and then nothing for years so there's no way to know if the IUD would make it so she didn't have a period.
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:23 PM

> wait, wait 2.0 is 16?!?!?!

Seriously.  Five minutes ago she was starting kindergarten.  : pbbt:
Parent - - By newfmrs Date 2017-11-29 11:59 AM
I've had two types of IUDs - a copper and Mirena (hormonal).  The copper one would likely not help her at all.  I bled heavier with it.  As far as Mirena, it is still individual.  For instance, my body just wants me to bleed :roll: so I still have periods with it in.  This is my second one and I've had bleeding with both Mirenas.  I think maybe you/she should also discuss with the gyn if this is the best thing to help her.  For me, I still get bad PMS symptoms with Mirena.  I get terrible headaches (here and there an actual migraine), cramps, and moodiness.  Mirena is more of a localized hormone compared to BCP that is in your entire body if that makes sense.  Soooo if she has severe symptoms, this may not be the solution.  Perhaps BCP would work better.  Again, since I'm not a doctor it's something I'd discuss with one to see if in general BCPs could help more than a Mirena.  Without Mirena, I'm a super heavy bleeder - like no way I could make it through a marathon (even when I run under 4 hours) with a single super plus.  I'd have to change it and have had to take ones along if it's day 1 or day 2 for me.  Mirena has lightened my bleeding but still there for several days each month.  As a random fyi, I had nearly constant spotting with BCPs which was one reason I tried something else.  Mirena has helped that - not sure the medical reason on it but it was something I discussed w/ my ob/gyn.  Also an an FYI, for me it hurt pretty badly to get it inserted.  It was very quick but nauseated me.  I only cramped some that day and next (similar to period or maybe not even as bad) and that was my only issues along with bleeding a few days.  I never had random breakthrough bleeding with it (just regular lighter periods) Never hurt having it removed.
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:16 PM
Thanks, this is all really helpful!
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-11-29 12:26 PM
I don't know what the law is in your province, but here a person of 13 years or older can sign for themselves in these types of medical decisions and parents can't even see the records if the young person does not want them to. So I would see this as being her body and her choice.  However, it is great that she's talking to you about this.  I agree that she should get the statistics from a doctor.

I've never given birth and found the insertion of the IUD one of the more painful things I've ever done (technically, it was the measuring of my uterus that was so awful.). However, after three days of bleeding from insertion I haven't had anything more than a spot since. And I'm at almost exactly a year with it. I have one of the hormonal ones (mirana). I hope it will take me through to menapause .
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:15 PM
Thanks - yeah, I know, it's her body, but part of me still thinks of her as the fuzzy-headed toddler she used to be.  :cry::laugh:
Parent - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-11-29 6:39 PM
Well Im hitting 52 and no sign of menopause the math...
Parent - - By Nomad Date 2017-11-29 12:44 PM
I have no advice on IUDs, but I'll tell you that I went on BCPs at 16 for similar reasons - irregularity and severe painful cramps. For me I was only on them for a few years (the fact that I was at a majority boys boarding school didn't help with the embarrassment factor) then came off again and both symptoms had subsided - so it may not be something she needs 'forever'. Now, the symptoms have returned in my 40s :mutmad: but so much other shit is breaking down at the same time that (a) I'm not too bothered and (b) you probably shouldn't tell 2.0 that :laugh:
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:15 PM
:laugh:  I so well, too well, know about the mid-40s breakdown.  Thanks - your experience is helpful.
Parent - - By tritri Date 2017-11-29 12:47 PM
I've never had an IUD, but I would have her consider taking the pill for 90 days or so (once she finds one that feels good for her), and then she can schedule her period using it.  Really, there is a lot of health benefits to not having a period; the placebo pills were just added not knowing this.  So, she could schedule the placebos whenever she wasn't competing every 3-4 months (or less!).
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-11-29 3:18 PM
I didn't do the placebo week for about 12 years. The period when on BCP is not a "real" period, ie: egg wasn't released blah blah blah.
Parent - - By gophergirl [us] Date 2017-11-29 1:13 PM
I can share both personal and advice from being a medical provider. Personally I hated my Mirena, but I have a weird shaped uterus and basically felt like I was having contractions the entire time I had it- 10 weeks.:cry: but know many women who love it. Medical side, it is becoming much more common for IUD either Mirena or Skyla IUD (the Skyla is even smaller) in teens. It used to be previously thought that this wasn't an option for those who hadn't had babies yet but that has changed. Insertion can be a little more unpleasant since cervix has never been open but ibuprofen can help with the cramping. Most teens that I have seen get them have no complaints and are happy with the decision. It is lower hormone level than pill without need to remember to take daily and can be removed at anytime. Most women with IUD get minimal periods so this could be a benefit to her.
Good for her for talking with you and you for having that open relationship. When I went on the pill as a teen due to a similar issue I couldn't ask my mom, she was not open to anything (and it was years later that I used it for any other reason).
Parent - - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:13 PM
Thanks.  Remembering to take the pill every day would be an issue for her, I think.
Parent - - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-11-29 6:39 PM
It was an issue for me. his name is Gavin
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-30 9:33 AM
:hug: This comment made my day.
Parent - - By tritri Date 2017-11-29 9:47 PM
You can keep them by your toothbrush, something else you do every day.
Parent - - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-11-30 9:24 AM
or in your underwear drawer, something else you do every day.   LOL
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-11-30 1:48 PM

not when I put on running shorts with a liner!
Parent - By Nomad Date 2017-11-30 7:52 AM
I still struggle to take my thyroid pills every day :blush: And I certainly had that issue with BCP - but on the assumption that she's only using them (as I did at 16) for symptom relief, missing the occasional one shouldn't matter.
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-11-29 1:16 PM
First, kudos to you for raising a daughter who is comfortable talking to you about this.

I haven't had an IUD, but I was on the pill for some time. I would suggest possibly starting with BCP rather than an IUD, pills are a lot less invasive and if she is taking the pill continuously for 3 months at a time that may/should alleviate the problem of feeling dizzy and unwell the day before, and of having irregular periods. There may be other side effects with BCP but these are also possible with an IUD. If she doesn't like the side effects of the pill she can stop taking it, no harm, no foul. If she doesn't like the side effects of the IUD she will have to go through its removal, and insertion and removal are not painless -- especially since as I recall the IUD gets inserted during your period so since she's irregular she would have to wait for a period to arrive and then try to get in to get the insertion done.

Definitely schedule a talk with a GYN, especially if you can find one with experience working with adolescents and young adults.

DD also had issues with irregular periods and ovarian cysts and she is on the quarterly shot -- has not had a period in probably a year. She's fine with that. So am I. But she's 24 and an adult.

Also yes it is overwhelming to admit that your child is nearing adulthood especially when you are dealing with emotional issues with your dad's situation as well. Hugs to you on that.

Good luck!
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:13 PM
:hug:  Thanks.
Parent - - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-11-29 3:45 PM
I think she should try the pill first and if that doesn't work try the IUD.
Have you told her she can be 50+ having multiple children with tubes tied and still get her period every month? That ought to make her wail...:roll::laugh:
Parent - - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:12 PM
That makes me cry!  :laugh:
Parent - - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-11-29 6:30 PM
That is my life now :cry:
Oh and I have pimples still too
Parent - By skigirl Date 2017-11-29 6:36 PM
Me too.  :cry:  And wrinkles.  So unfair.
Parent - By PoopedColt Date 2017-11-29 7:15 PM
I think talking to her doctor is best.  But IMO IUDs are awesome for birth control and the hormonal kind (Mirena) decreases the volume of flow, but if her issues are irregularity and PMS symptoms, it might not be the best way to go. My experiences with both the copper and mirena are similar to newf.  I switched to hormonal to control the volume, as I was essentially hemmoraging about half the month.  Mirena has helped the volume but that’s about it. 3+ years into it and I still have spotting to light flow approximately half the days each month. And probably worse is that there is no real cycle. It can be 4 on/3 off, every other day for two weeks, then 3 weeks off, then 10 days straight. And my PMS is WAY worse than ever. Essentially I’m either PMSing or MSing every day. And if that’s not bad enough, my digestive system is whacked. I went from having an overactive/very regular person, then Mirena, then boom. Flipped to the other extreme. It’s awful. Probiotics have helped a fair amount, but I’m still nowhere like I was before.  But it does stop about 90% of the volume and not having to remember to take a pill is nice - and at least for us, before Obamacare this was much cheaper.  The copper one cost me $750 16 years ago but that was for 10 years. BCP at the time were $60/month if I recall

Thus, I vote for starting with BCP and then going from there. But talk to her doc...
Parent - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-11-29 7:59 PM
I'm not a medical professional - but I think I would want to start with BCPs first to see how my body reacts to the hormones, etc.  Some people get terrible migraines, etc., or other people (I was one) find that BCPs are a lifesaver.

Plus you have the advantage of being able to quit immediately if someone goes wonky, rather than having to go get the IUD removed.
- - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-11-29 8:22 PM
From the files of "This may not be a good idea"...

My employer has various health "challenges" during the holiday season.  The one at my location is a "Maintain or lose weight" challenge (largest weight loss gets cash prize).  I'm :roll: on those "big loser" type challenges, but they don't seem to be horribly dangerous for regular people.

The challenge at another location, however, is "Hydration Challenge" (largest volume of water consumed in ounces during the challenge period gets cash prize). Apparently, the winner last year averaged 85 ounces of straight water per day for ~8 weeks (not including other beverages or hydration through foods). I'm a little concerned that will encourage unhealthy volumes of water for the super competitive people to earn cash.
Parent - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-11-29 8:26 PM
neither of these seems like a good idea.  : pbbt:
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-11-30 1:54 PM
Both of those are bad ideas. Having the largest weight loss getting a cash prize seems unfair to the smaller people -- make it a percentage of starting weight and it's more equitable.

On the hydration challenge, that is a very bad idea. Water intoxication is something you can actually die from.
Parent - - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-11-30 3:43 PM
still a bad idea on the weight loss.  What about the people who are normal or underweight?  Or for whom losing weight would certainly be possible, but not healthy?
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-11-30 4:15 PM
I agree -- not a good idea at all.

I'm sure somebody thought it sounded like fun, but I'm also wondering if the legal or HR department knows about this.
Parent - By Nomad Date 2017-11-30 4:41 PM
We did "pick a goal weight and the closest to it wins". That was considered the fairest & healthiest way. We all sucked so in the end it didn't matter :laugh:
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