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Up Topic Communities / Women / Wednesday Wet Weather NRR
- - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 8:18 AM
Raining here... had a chance to try out my multi-layer-weather plan for camping : pbbt: 

How's the weather by you?
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2017-10-11 8:25 AM
Threatening rain, but not actually raining. It is mochie, which is just fine by me. I can actually breath comfortably!
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-10-11 3:32 PM
Hi stranger.  How are things with you these days?
Parent - - By moonglow9 Date 2017-10-12 9:33 AM
Tolerable, I suppose. I am having more stretches of feeling "okay" or "not horrible" so that's something. Still having PT and a slew of medical appointments, and possibly more procedures end of October/early November. Still pain flares, but I'll take the ability to sleep at least some that has started to sink in over the past couple of weeks. Other than that, trying to be normal in a state of abnormality.... that will hopefully turn more "normal" as time passes. This is the hardest thing I've done so far.
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-10-12 9:48 AM
Sorry to hear you are still having such a hard time. :sad: Sleep is SO important, it is good that you are getting that back.  :hug: Glad you are around here, I missed you.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2017-10-12 9:54 AM
:hug: I think being here more makes me feel more normal in itself, even if my participation is necessarily limited. And yes, sleep is critical!! My family can certainly attest that I am more human now that sleep has reentered the picture. :laugh:
Parent - By swandive Date 2017-10-12 10:10 AM
I'm sorry you are having such a rough go of it. :sad:  Trying to adjust to a new normal where you feel not horrible at best isn't easy.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 8:30 AM
Can I rant for a moment?

Some scoutlette parents are driving me absolutely insane

So far this year, the highest turnout we've had was at a campout with most of the troop present.  We've had two meetings as well, and didn't top half the troop at either.   I get that people are busy, but don't whine to me when you don't like things if you don't bother to attend the planning sessions.

Some parents suggested a fru-fru-spa event - totally NOT my thing, and my kids are dreading going to it already  (I'm tempted to leave them at home, actually).  Since they suggested it and are excited, I've asked parents to step up to plan it...  crickets...  One parent did contact me about helping & said she could plan it but wanted me to provide recipes and instructions for spa things because "I don't know how to do any of that".  ummm.... there's this thing called google...  and no, I'm not going to look up a bunch of things that you can look up easily for something you want to do.

Someone sent me a quote attributed to Steve Jobs:  If you want to make everyone happy, don't be a leader, sell ice cream. : pbbt:
Parent - - By kelly_v Date 2017-10-11 8:53 AM
That definitely sounds annoying, I wouldn't wan't to be a scout leader that's for sure!  Why would you leave your girls home from the event? Because they don't care for that activity?
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:30 AM
I don't think forcing my children to go to an event they have absolutely no interest in is a good idea.  I wouldn't force a child who hates being outside to go camping, because they would whine and pout the whole time & potentially be disruptive.   Likewise, I won't force a child who doesn't want anything to do with spa events to get her toenails painted - heck, I won't let them paint my nails!

Best case scenario, I bring my kids, pay their admission fee, and they sit in a corner and read a book the whole time.  Worst case - they become disruptive and unruly.    I may attempt to schedule "alternative activities" for girls not 100% in the mani-pedi-makeup scene, but I fear doing that will ruin the plans of the adults running the mani-pedi-makeup stuff & I don't wish to rain upon their activity.  It's easier to leave my children out of the event.
Parent - - By swandive Date 2017-10-11 9:03 AM
But are you selling any lactose-free ice cream? : pbbt:

It's a good thing you're so well-paid as a scout leader, eh? :roll:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:25 AM
hmmm... lactose-free ice cream, nope.  But I was asked for allergy-free nuts :roll:   Why no, ma'am, these nuts aren't allergic to anything.
Parent - By swandive Date 2017-10-11 9:56 AM
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 10:03 AM
What did she have in mind? Even roasted soybeans ("soy nuts") are on the list of frequent allergens. Is her child responsible enough to trust not to consume nuts? Because a nut-free gorp seems a bit one-note: raisins, sunflower kernels, maybe pumpkin seeds, and M&Ms.

I like your response, though.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 11:07 AM
no, we're selling nuts and candy at the moment... I have no idea what she was thinking, other than a pale attempt at humor?

Also, RE: gorp.   G.O.R.P = Good ol' Raisins and Peanuts.    A nut-free gorp is actually just raisins : pbbt:
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 12:12 PM
Even worse.

I should've used "trail mix" which is more whatever people choose to throw into a plastic bag, right?

At the blood center last week one guy was very disappointed because they were out of cookies and the bag of trail mix was far too healthy for his taste. No salt and no M&Ms. How could they call that trail mix?
Parent - - By kelly_v Date 2017-10-11 12:21 PM
I'm with blood center guy :blush:
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 3:28 PM
So was I.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 3:33 PM
me three!
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2017-10-11 7:34 PM
Parent - - By NotSoFast [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:04 AM
I think you said it all yourself. Now say it to the parents....

"no complaining if you didn't attend the planning sessions"
"spa day great idea! please plan this activity and tell us when and where to show up"
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:24 AM
I know, but I need to rant & my facebook is filled with people who are in the troop or are friends of people in the troop & it will come back to haunt me if I rant there. : pbbt:
Parent - - By NotSoFast [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:28 AM
I never rant on FB much. Its just for kid photo posting and snarky wine comments
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:32 AM
Good plan.

I try to lay off on any politics/religion/rants on FB, too. I have friends across the whole spectrum, and value their points of view, but many of them don't have a reciprocal acceptance of other opinions.   The amount of horribly misleading statistics on gun violence (from both sides) right now is astounding.
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-10-11 9:49 AM
I just "muted" a bunch of friends on facebook.  I only left on people I actually care about-- folks from here, folks I swim with, and friends I see or would like to see regularly.  Even a few of my IRL friends who rant too much or post too much politics got muted.  All I really want to see is the photos of children and cats and self deprecating posts about how silly the world is.
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:48 AM
Another reason why I stay off FB. I can say things here without friends of friends of friends taking offense.

Rant away here.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 11:18 AM
I do have a standing "friends only " setting on my posts, or "group members only" that helps cut down on the chain of offended people
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:57 AM
If they suggested it, they should plan it. How many of the scoutlettes are excited about it?

I would say plan things that you want to do with the scoutlettes, especially activities that will give them valuable life skills, and if someone wants to do something else, it's that parent's responsibility to do all the planning and you to be there as chaperone.

And by all means let yours avoid it. I would have hated something like that at their age too. Still don't want to go to a spa event, ever. No mani/pedis here please.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 11:17 AM
last spring, a bunch were excited, perhaps half?  Two are no longer in the troop, but I guess they'll see a fair amount of attendance.  In no way will I obstruct their access to a reasonable amount of funds for the event.  We spent ~$25 per kid on the recent camping, woodworking, concrete, silk scarf dying, painting/drawing, and outdoor skills event.  I'll give them that much per kid maximum, even though their event will be only 1 day instead of 2.5.  They can scrounge donations, buy bulk ingredients & find DIY recipes just like I did vs. buying cutsey craft kits that cost a fortune.
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 12:15 PM

Target had a "knitting kit" that included a pair of needles, a skein of yarn, a tapestry needle, and a sheet of instructions for a scarf. (A scarf! How much instruction do you need for a scarf? It assumed you already knew how to knit.) I could've put that kit together for less than $10 at Michael's and that's assuming I was buying expensive yarn. They wanted $19.99 for it!
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 3:32 PM
Lol... I shop craigslist, st vinny's and goodwill.  I could probably put that together for $0.50, but everyone would have different sized knitting needles.  : pbbt:
Parent - - By swandive Date 2017-10-11 9:04 AM
Hot, humid, and sunny.  It's supposed to be in the upper 80s today and tomorrow. :roll:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:23 AM
hmmm... I don't think your state understands what "fall" is supposed to be. :meh:
Parent - - By swandive Date 2017-10-11 9:58 AM
No, apparently not. :mutmad:  All of the trees are still green.

Wet-weather camping aside, are you getting some decent fall weather?
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-11 11:14 AM
Gorgeous weather, actually.   Our camping trip was clear skies, high 60's during the day, low 40's at night.  I couldn't have scheduled any better weather, and I'm quite lucky considering we reserved the site 4 months prior to the date.  17 scouts using power tools & pouring concrete :cool:  It was a great success.  Two girls did not make the full night in tents without mom & one girl went home around midnight ready to throw up & sick with a stomach bug, the rest survived cutting the apron strings and sleeping in their own tents with friends (in spite of their mothers' protestations)

Today and yesterday have been rainy, but it's not horrible rain, if that makes sense.  I can see people wanting to skip out of events, but I'm of the opinion that there is no bad weather, only poor clothing choices.
Parent - - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-10-12 6:12 AM
So did you see where the Boy Scouts will now allow girls into their cub program next year and then to the scout program soon?
Thoughts? I can see both sides. I think separate activities especially in the teen years can be very powerful for kids. However, I understand that many girl scout troops are not as active outdoors like you are, and the girls are looking for a more rigorous program. I don't know about the Girl Scouts, but the Boy Scouts does foster an incredible leadership program as a boy - led program, the adults are there basically to provide guidance and hands off leadership. And they have the Eagle rank which is so symbolic in so many ways. I think that it may hurt the Girl Scout program overall. I don't see too many boys who would want to join girl scouts.
Parent - By moonglow9 Date 2017-10-12 9:36 AM
I also think it will likely be more girls into Boy Scouts rather than boys into Girl Scouts (if the GS allows boys in?). From what I hear, there are some GS troops that do outdoor things, but often not as frequently as the scoutlets do in their organisation. It seems to have improved over the past few years though, from what the girls I know tell me. The independence and leadership seems less of a focus in GS than BS, even though GS gives verbal nods to the concepts.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-12 11:29 AM
Yes I have, the basics, as I understand it, will be girl-only dens within mixed-gender cub packs, and girl-only troops at older levels.  Explorers and Ventures will remain co-ed.  It's up to the council & charter organization to decide if they will be girl-only, boy-only, or co-ed in the larger sense.

There is far more animosity than I expected from the girl scout ranks - everything from "they're stealing our girls" to "girls shouldn't  have to compete with boys to win merit badges"  - a LOT of misinformation & uninformed people ranting.

Of the "outdoor active troops" I know, some are considering switching immediately, though there will be a time lag for the older girls, 2019 for the new program, and that will make it difficult to see the benefit for high school kids right now.  My own troop is poised well - we could bridge into BSA cleanly in two years instead of going along the older girl scout ranks, but I'll leave that up to the scouts, and we can discuss it over the next few years.

GS is supposed to be a great leadership program, but the structure of it makes it heavily dependent upon the two or three troop leaders.  In GS, a troop is (most often, not always) about 8-12 girls, all in the same school and same grade.  Parental support is mixed, and the required adults are 2 co-leaders to form the troop.   The troop stays together from 5k through 12th grade in their ideal program, but most fall apart in 6th grade, when many girls no longer continue and a troop with 2 girls is sort of silly.  If a troop wants to do a badge, it is up to the girls and their 2 co-leaders to find an expert in whatever, interpret the often vague requirements, and set it up.  In many cases, those same 2 co-leaders stay with the girls their entire time, and those adults need to re-learn badges, leadership work, etc, every 2 years when the girls "age up" into a new set of books, guides, and goals.  Those same 2-3 adults generally get burned out planning & coordinating every.single.activity, and often are ready to quit at 6th grade themselves.

GS troops have "kapers" (jobs) at meetings, which are akin to classroom jobs, there is rarely an assigned "Girl troop lead" or "Girl patrol lead".   Though some troops do use this model when they become large enough.  I have toyed with 4-girl patrols (rotating leaders) for my scouts, just to get them into the structure & it seems to work, but I have ~17 girls, and you really need a quorum for this to actually happen.  You can't make patrols of 2 girls, and having multi-level ages helps fuel the leadership pipeline. 

BSA, however, has the den-pack coordination at the younger grades, and then the older scouts have a large troop, sometimes 50-100 scouts, with a leadership team where the scoutmaster has a cadre of adults to assist.  The troop is broken into patrols of 8-ish scouts, and the patrols are boy led.  There are often "Merit badge councilors" who are experts in one or more merit badges, and many troops keep a list of these.   The enormous benefit to a BSA troop is the longevity and tribal knowledge base of how the program runs.  The badge requirements evolve over the years, but the basic structure has not changed as much as in GS.   A man bringing his son to a BSA troop will recognize some of the structure from his own troop 20 years prior.  A troop has enough adults associated with it that the burden of day-to-day operations falls on many, not one.  They often have "troop equipment" and a quartermaster to manage equipment loans, so you are not having every single new crop of scouts buy gear.  Fun fact - when a GS troop disbands, it is supposed to distribute the gear/supplies among members - there is no precedent to hand down supplies to a younger upcoming troop.  I asked about buying tents and immediately was asked "what will you do with them when your troop disbands?"

Both programs CAN be great.
To most people, however, GS = cookies, crafts, etc.  BS = camping, mechanical/tool/skills, and getting dirty.

Even the programming and badges in GS have been poorly thought out.   These are the badges for 9th & 10th grade    Looks thrilling, right?  How many badges do you want to earn from that list?  This will be your choices for 2 years.   Take an example of the first aid badge - the requirement at this level is basically "Go get certified in CPR/First Aid" - here is what the "badge handbook" tells you to do.  Oh, that handbook is only available as part of a $22 Girl's Guide, and is expected to be purchased for every scout individually, and if the leader wants a copy for herself, yep, go buy one.  There is no easy online source except for unofficial sites (probably in copyright violation).

IMO, a lot of program value was lost by trying to be all things to all people.  Camping badges for the younger girls (younger than 6th grade) do not require actual camping in tents.  You can fulfill them by staying in a council property that is very much akin to a hotel - cots, flushies, full kitchen, fireplace, lighting, furnace & AC. Will some disabled scouts not be able to use wheelchairs on a tent campsite?  Yes.  Should inclusion force the rest of the troop to never camp in tents? <I'll leave this up to you>   One troop I know of has a girl with a gluten allergy.  She goes on activities with them.  The troop wanted to make sandwiches or something to eat on the outing, they are in 4th grade.  Did they have gf bread for the one girl? Yep!  the whole troop was expected to eat gf bread, at a not-so-insignificant price increase.  Is that a problem, not really, but the extra $$ could have been used elsewhere & a $1 loaf of wonder bread would have served the rest of the girls.   Sometimes, reasonable accommodation means treating people differently according to their needs.  I can't wait to find out what the solution is when a transgender girl wants to go camping - does the entire troop have to sleep one to a tent because that one girl must?

I have already considered pushing my own children into Civil Air Patrol as a leadership organization when they are 11/12, this move by BSA may open another alternative to that.
/rant off
Parent - - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-10-12 2:23 PM
We probably will have to rename it BGSA or SoA

Evan would have wanted his girl friends to join in if they wanted and would not have wanted them to not join, I do know that.

The values they teach are not sex segregated values.

Maybe now we can sell the damn cookies instead of the stupid popcorn. YAY!

I predict a demise of the Girl Scouts to a much smaller group.
Parent - - By swandive [us] Date 2017-10-12 3:06 PM
Sons of Anarchy sounds like a terrible name for a children's group. : pbbt:
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2017-10-12 3:34 PM
:laugh: that was my first thought too!
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-12 3:56 PM

>>I predict a demise of the Girl Scouts to a much smaller group.

Unfortunately, you may be right.   If you take out the very active outdoor troops & volunteers (assuming they jump ship), you are left with a lot of very active activists, cookie-business people, and crafty people.  I don't see that as a major draw for girls.  While I applaud the humanitarian education and world causes championed by some of the activities, I don't see it as a "selling point" to get girls interested.

What I see:
The girls sign up for caroling at the senior home, but don't come back to the troop next year saying "caroling is so much fun we HAVE to do it"
The girls sign up for parades, but don't come back demanding we walk in parades
The girls enjoy "world cultures day", and choose fascinating countries to learn about, but don't talk about that until I offer it as an option every fall.
The girls sign up for summer camp and overnight camping and are nothing but chatter for weeks on end about what they did.  The woodworking project, the tent camping, the cooking over a fire...the come back for that.  They REMEMBER camping, even in a cabin and calling it "not-camping"
Parent - - By ironjen Date 2017-10-12 1:28 PM
I always find this interesting. My brother and step brother were boy scouts. I was in Camp Fire which had, even when I was a kid, BOTH genders in it. I always thought Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts were very separate completely unrelated organizations but I'm reading a lot that that either is is the same or people think it's the same. I have never put Amanda in Girl Scouts because I never liked what I saw of it when I was a kid in other kids and I prefer Camp Fire and would have put her in that but there isn't a council where we live. Ian was never interested in Boy Scouts so it was never pushed. If they become interested in that J would likely look for a CAP (like Mickey) group for them as that's what he did. Honestly I just don't care about BSA policy, though I admit to being SHOCKED by the change given how much of an issue it was to allow gay boys/men into the organization.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-10-12 1:33 PM
The two are currently very much separate organizations, with open animosity at the higher levels, and subversive cooperation at the lower levels. :roll:
Parent - By NotSoFast [ca] Date 2017-10-12 2:24 PM
Now that the LDS church is pulling all their boys out of Boy Scouts to their own program, there will be a lot less of that influence over the Scouting program but they do need to make up the members somehow.
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-10-11 4:05 PM
I finally took the Insta-Pot out for a test run last night. Quiona in one minute!! (plus the ten for the thing to cool off)

Anyone have any favorite vegetarian instapot recipes/ideas? Any meal, any course.
Parent - By gophergirl [us] Date 2017-10-11 7:40 PM
I love my IP. Sorry no real recipes but here are a couple easy. Risotto has been a favorite here, Mac n cheese, curries. Risotto is sauté onion garlic the throw in risotto and broth for 8 min, release then stir in veggies and a little parm cheese and sit 2-3 min. Mac n cheese sauté onion garlic then add pasta and water to cover for 4 minutes, release then stir in shredded cheese and a little milk until melted (I've made it non dairy and works well).
Check out Vegan Under Pressure cookbook
Parent - By swandive Date 2017-10-11 8:02 PM
My sister, who is vegan, has an Insta-Pot and loves it.  The whole heating up + depressurizing thing seems like a variable I'd have to get used to (having never used a pressure cooker and having used a slow cooker only rarely), but she does find it very helpful for cooking dried beans and whole grains.  It's possible that moonglow will be of help as I know Indian cuisine tends to use pressure cookers quite often.  Even if she doesn't use an Insta-Pot, you might find a lot of vegetarian/vegan recipes for pressure cookers if you look to Indian recipes.
- By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:49 AM
Hot, dry, and windy, though the wind has calmed down since Monday. You may have noticed we had a minor conflagration or two out here. :sad:
- By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-10-11 9:58 AM
So the kit kats did not go back for spaying/neutering today. Two are a couple of ounces under 2 pounds and another is sneezing and I'm not sure if she has a cold or if dust/smoke/ash is getting up her nose. We'll keep them another week. They think this is permanent so they won't know the difference (until they get popped into the carrier and wind up at the clinic).
Up Topic Communities / Women / Wednesday Wet Weather NRR

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