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Up Topic Communities / Women / Monday NRR
- - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-25 9:37 AM
What's happening in your world today?
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-09-25 10:00 AM
Five kittens are learning more about the world. I did not want to go to work!
Parent - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-09-25 10:43 AM
Parent - By kelly_v Date 2017-09-25 11:28 AM
Parent - By tritri Date 2017-09-25 6:35 PM
Too cute!
Parent - - By kelly_v Date 2017-09-25 11:30 AM
Does anyone have one of those laptop/tablet hybrids (like a Surface)? M just got me one and I don't really see the point. Apparently I mentioned once I wanted one (??? I probably saw a commercial and said "that looks cool" or something). I'm trying to figure out the draw. This one the tablet screen doesn't completely detach although you can rotate it into tablet mode.
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-25 11:42 AM
I have a surface pro 3 for work and LOVE it.  It is in addition to the desktop.  My Office Manager draws amazing things on hers. I think she uses her stylus, or perhaps just her finger.  But if you are artistic (which I am not) I would think it would be fun.  I've only messed around with the drawing program.
Parent - By easternshoregir [us] Date 2017-09-25 11:43 AM
It's convenient to have the touch screen sometimes! We have the HP Revolves at school, which sound similar to what you got. I do find myself reaching for my screen when I'm working at home on my macbook that doesn't have the touch screen. I think that has been the only advantage for me!
Parent - - By Nomad Date 2017-09-25 1:13 PM
I'm typing this on a Surface Pro 4 that I have for work. I use the stylus for hand writing meeting notes and making notes on pdf files primarily, beyond that I love how light it is for taking to meetings, business trips etc. I've been paper-notebook-free for several years now, first with an ipad in addition to a laptop/desktop and now with just the Surface.

OneNote is my go-to program for meeting minutes using the draw function and stylus - I keep the notes as handwriting but there is a function to later turn to text - if your handwriting is clear enough which mine isn't! There are lots of pdf annotator options, and I don't really like the one my company uses, so bought "PDF Annotator" (it does what it says!) and quite like it.

I actually got a Surface for my mother for her 70th birthday before I got mine - she can't carry a laptop easily and goes to a lot of meetings where she was having to print out 2-3" thick booklets to use. She is LOVING being the tech-geek using the Surface instead and it's better than an ipad for her as she has issues using touch screens but can use the stylus on the surface instead.
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-25 1:32 PM
I use OneNote and OneDrive for everything too!  I love that if my surface is stolen I don't lose anything except the hardware itself.  I can access it all from any device (though I try not to use home ones for work applications). I love that i can draw on notes, to add emphasis, and I love that I can print from anything into onenote!
Parent - - By kelly_v Date 2017-09-26 6:32 AM
Is OneNote a note taking device? Like paper to write on?
Parent - - By Nomad Date 2017-09-26 8:00 AM
It's part of the Microsoft Office package. Hard to describe but it kind of like a notebook (in fact that's that it calls each file) within which you can have different sections and within the section different pages. On each page you can type, draw, handwrite, put in a picture or an audio's essentially freeform to collect anything you want into a framework of pages, sections, section groups & notebooks. You can 'print to onenote' which makes it easy to insert, say, a word or pdf document as a picture and then annotate onto it using your stylus. If you have MS Office it's worth playing with and checking out google to see how other people use it
Parent - - By swandive Date 2017-09-26 8:02 AM
Yep, it's basically the software version of a Trapper Keeper. :laugh:
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 8:10 AM
My kids' school bans trapper keepers, specifically, by name!
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-26 9:36 AM
I didn't realize trapper keepers still existed!
Parent - By kelly_v Date 2017-09-26 12:24 PM
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-25 1:40 PM
I've been thinking a lot about how prepared/unprepared I am when I hike, boat, etc.  For swimming I feel fairly prepared-- usually parallel to shore, folks know where I am, I carry a buoy and a whistle. But for hiking, not always.

Over Labor Day the house we rented was in the Columbia Gorge (on the WA side).  Saturday night we literally watched the hillside on the OR side burn.  There were 140 hikers trapped on the trail by a fire that started just about a mile from the trail head.  Those folks had to overnight on the trail and hike out a total of 7 miles!  Many of them just had flipflops and a towel.

Yesterday an endurance sport friend/acquaintance of mine sprained or broke (still unsure) her ankle when the trail gave way on a long run. She had a 10 mile hike out on a broken (?) ankle.  She had a GPS transponder with her as well as everything she needed to overnight on the trail (bivy, 10 essentials). The GPS let her spouse locate her when he hiked in to meet her.

Which one of these scenarios would you more likely be in?  What precautions do you take when you run/hike/snowshoe etc?
Parent - - By Nomad Date 2017-09-25 3:35 PM
Not prepared enough for sure. No-one knows where I'm hiking when I'm in Sedona, hell, frequently no-one knows I'm there at all! And short of emailing my parents, or maybe posting here(!) I don't know how I'd provide that info. But I only day hike on set trails; I don't go off the trail (for both safety and environmental reasons) and I'm therefore rarely very far out of cell phone range. Occasionally I have no service but within a mile it's back - to the extent that I set it to do not disturb before heading out to prevent the inevitable email notification buzzing driving me nuts. So I have a phone, and I also always use a hiking pole; partly because I'm a klutz, partly because I'm scared of heights so it helps me feel more secure, partly to ward off animals, and partly to assist me hike out with an injured leg.

I frequently see people on the trails in groups wearing flipflops or sneakers and shorts, holding a water bottle. And giving me a strange look with my camelback, long hiking pants, hiking boots, and hiking pole. But I'm by myself so better safe than sorry.

However, running is another matter. Although I rarely run anywhere that's not pretty well travelled, I never have a phone on me so if I got into trouble my only options would be to wait for a passer-by or get myself out under my own steam. That occasionally concerns me but honestly not enough to change habits.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 8:07 AM
At a minimum, write your route & time of departure and estimated time of arrival on a slip of paper & leave it in your vehicle at the trailhead.  If you don't return, someone will have reported the 'abandoned' vehicle.   Bonus points if you leave a recent photo of yourself with that, and identifying information (name, address, phone, emergency contacts)

Better still - email a friend the details & have a "check in by" time where if you don't report back in 24 hours, or whatever, they contact the local authorities.
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-26 9:37 AM
Heck, you can email me if you want (or text my phone).  I have a friend whose most frequent contact with her dad is a text that says "if you don't hear from me by this date, call the ranger station x and tell them I'm on y trail."
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-09-25 3:58 PM
Probably not prepared enough.

If I have the Camelback on, that has a first aid kit, food, water (obviously), and usually spare clothes. I should carry a flashlight, space blanket, and a few other things, but don't.

If I'm not wearing the Camelback, probably a lot less prepared. But if I was doing a 10 mile or more trail run, as it sounds like your friend was doing, I would have some essentials.

For the people who were trapped by a fire, were they doing a short trail walk to a swimming hole? I could easily see myself doing that with a bathing suit, towel, and running shoes (I don't like flip flops), but nothing else.
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-26 9:38 AM
The people trapped by the fire were at a swimming hole a mile from the trail head.  Very populated. Easy hike to the swimming hole.  The fire started between them and the trail head.
Parent - By tritri Date 2017-09-25 4:23 PM
I never had much trail running. Food and water and salt tablets, ibuprofen.  Just enough for what I planned on doing, plus extras in case I had less energy or it was hotter.  And DH knew where I was going.  I was generally on trails where there would be others.  Backpacking, I was with DH and that's my contact.  I generally took more food than needed, and there we have all the gear and water filters.  Now when I bike, I usually have a cell phone and tubes and such, and DH knows where I am going.  When he did his 170 mile bike ride (alone, on bad roads), he at least had a Strava beacon and so I could find him on a map and he took a cell charger for on the bike charging.  So I guess if he was hit by a car, I would see his beacon stopped.  But it also stopped when he was in areas with no signal, only to update 45 minutes later.
Parent - By kelly_v Date 2017-09-26 6:34 AM
I don't do any of those things but I also don't do activities like that (no open water swimming, the "hiking" I've done before are on super populated trails that barely count as trails, etc). There were a few times on long runs I thought I should have had something with me just in case (phone, whistle, whatever) when I felt uncomfortable but again I would usually run in populated areas and not really have too much concern.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 8:03 AM
I've been reading up on that group of stranded hikers, mostly to organize some discussions with the scout troop about being prepared when hiking, even on a day hike, even on a trail that is only 1.9 miles from your car.

Several of those hikers were not dressed for the nighttime temperatures, some were in flip-flops and bathing suits (they were visiting a waterfall).  They ended up on the trail overnight and hiking almost 20 miles to safety.   The story I read said only one person of the 143 total hikers had a daypack with the "10 essentials" and the fires/terrain were too tricky to even air drop supplies. 

Now, hiking 1.9 miles in flat, sparse forests, knowing you can break trail and hike a straight line out any direction to safety within 1 mile (scenario in a local state park) is one thing.   However, they were in gorges, and could not simply go cross-country around the fire.  That also assumes you have a compass/gps and map and know where you are and where the fire is.

I tend to be far more prepared than many people, but I would be uncomfortable overnight or a surprise 20-mile hike, though not at risk for any injury.
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-09-26 9:30 AM
Good point, when you're hiking a canyon trail you have only two choices: go on or go back.

Excellent thought to use this as a teaching tool for the scouts. I'm sure most of those hikers thought "eh, less than two miles, I'll just wear my bathing suit and flip flops rather than have to find a place to change clothes near the waterfall".

They were lucky there was a way out, even though it was 20 miles. Some trails in the PNW or the Sierras could be 80-100 miles to the next point where vehicles could get to them. While 20 miles is possible, though I'm sure there were some impressive blisters, 80 miles would be a very long way to hike, especially carrying children which I'm sure some of the stranded hikers were doing.  And I don't think you could do it in flipflops.

Which story did you read?
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-09-26 10:40 AM
Thanks for the links. Yes, daypack with essentials!
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-26 9:40 AM
Did you find the facebook post by one of the folks who was trapped (with kids and dog)?  You could talk about leadership with the scouts too, as that story talked a lot about the man who took charge and helped them stay calm and get to safety.

One person was helicopter evacuated b/c of diabetes or something similar.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 9:58 AM Edited 2017-09-26 10:00 AM
I did hear about the helicopter evac, but the winds shifted & they couldn't bring in supplies after the evac.  

lessons I want to stress for the scouts:

1) things happen, being prepared will make you more comfortable
2) even the unprepared people came home just fine with minor scrapes & bruises - you are tougher than you think.
3) one individual with a plan and command presence organized everyone and brought confidence to the whole group.  He saved lives simply by being rational and calm.

Reebs - is there a story with more details on the guy who "took charge"?  I was looking for that thread, but found only bits and pieces - organized a line with stronger people front/back, weaker people in the middle.  Travel as a group, stop as a group.  Assign numbers to every person, write number on their hand, count-off repeatedly to not lose anyone.  etc.
Parent - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-26 10:08 AM
This is the first hand account:
Start with that one then look for the other 4 installments on FB.
Parent - - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 10:24 AM Edited 2017-09-26 10:28 AM
I should add some general points: 

If you're in an area within phone coverage (really good quality coverage), a cell phone is likely all you will need - most parks near urban areas fall into this category.  It's uncommon you need anything your cell phone will not provide.

If you are out of cell coverage, even for a mile, or more than ~20-30 minutes from first responders, you should assume that you'll have to make it out on your own if injured.

If you're on a set of trails you know very, very, VERY well, you probably already know seven evacuation plans.  If you are not that familiar, there is no excuse to leave a map at home, even a crappy photocopy.  You can get turned around and lost easily when you are distracted - I hiked a mile in the wrong direction with my kid because it was pouring rain, 90+ degrees, and swarms of mosquitoes - I knew the trails really well, too, and stupidly did not confer with my map until we should have made a turn.

Carrying the 10 essentials is great, but useless if you don't know what to do with them.  know how to start an emergency fire for warmth, practice using just what you carry - flint and steel is great, but not when you're panicked.  Carry a plastic, pea-less, multi-tone whistle (like a Stormwhistle, Fox-40, or ACR).  Plastic, because freezing temperatures will freeze your lips to a metal whistle, it hurts, a lot!  Pea-less, because water and frost and ash and other gunk can gum up the pea and make it not work.  Multi-tone, because sometimes one tone carries better and a chord sounds less like a birdsong.  Three blasts is universal for "need help"  (three of anything - three fires, three piles of stones, etc).  Carry a knife & know how to use it to help you make a shelter or fire.  Carry food & water, even if "it's only a mile".  Save one of those mylar marathon blankets & re-fold it into a ziploc baggie - free emergency blanket!
Parent - - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-09-26 10:37 AM
I never thought about lips freezing to a metal whistle. The things you learn on the forum!

And yes, we're well familiar with being out of cell range here. Mountains tend to do that. Trouble is that so many people have no idea that there are places even in Los Angeles County (the most heavily populated county in the country) where you don't get cell reception.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 10:58 AM
I've worked plenty of missing-person searches, and foolishly started with a metal whistle myself.  But my tried-and-trusty fox-40 whistle is going on 30 years now, well worth the $5 I spent on it.

I can say that the pervasiveness of cell towers has unfortunately contributed to people being ill-prepared for emergencies.  "I'll just call for rescue" has become more common, even on stupid things where they could easily have hiked out had they a map or water, or a decent sun hat.
Parent - - By reebs (chicken whisperer) Date 2017-09-26 11:08 AM
I also think it is good for groups to have a plan.  My family was at Mt. Rainier this summer, hiking in a group of about 15 people, mix of adults and kids with the youngest kid being 11.  One of my DN's who is 13 ended up by herself at a Y and took the wrong branch.  She hiked about a mile before realizing she wasn't seeing other family.  So she turned around and started to hike out.  Just past that Y she found my parents, sitting in the shade.  She talked to them about where the rest of the family was, and basically ran down the correct branch of the Y until she found her, by that time fairly panicked, parents.  This was on a very popular trail, but since she didn't know the name of the trail she was supposed to be on, she couldn't ask people for help. She also didn't have her own water with her.

The family lessons learned is making sure everyone, regardless of age, knows the route and the name of the turn around point.  Everyone carries their own water. Everyone hikes with a buddy and does not leave that buddy behind or let them go ahead.  The kid's instinct to turn around and hike out was the right one, but it still made everyone pretty scared.
Parent - By spccer6 [us] Date 2017-09-26 2:53 PM
I haven't thought about the separated without water scenario.  I always carry extra water for the family, but then all the water bottles are usually in one or two backpacks we take turns carrying.  Time to rethink that.
Parent - By Arimathea [us] Date 2017-09-26 4:16 PM
Very good thought -- everyone carry their own basic supplies and know where you're going and where you are turning around. And where you are parked! "Under a a turnout...on the side of a hill" isn't going to help much with identifying which trailhead your parents' car is parked at.
Parent - By Mickey [us] Date 2017-09-26 8:54 PM
Yes, everyone carries the 10 essentials...small children do not carry a knife or matches, though.  The individuals should all know the basics of the route, and have a map.
S.t.o.p.  If something happens.   Stop. Think. Observe. Plan.
Children should hug a tree (stay put), have a snack, and a drink of water, and make noise.
Adults should stay put if completely lost, or backtrack if they are able to.

Prioritize what you do by the Rule of Three for can die in:
3 seconds if you panic
3 minutes without air
3 hours without proper weather protection (exposure/heat/cold)
3 days without water
3 weeks without food.
Parent - By BoredTemp [us] Date 2017-09-27 6:58 AM
this has been a really good wake-up call, thank you ladies.  I do little hikes from time to time (never over 5 miles) and never think to bring anything other than water and food.  I definitely would have been the person at the swim hole with only a towel.   Scary.
Parent - By elmtree Date 2017-09-26 11:05 AM
Hopefully none bc I can't figure out why I'd be hiking in the first place!
Up Topic Communities / Women / Monday NRR

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