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Up Topic Training / Marathons / Ups and downs Wednesday
- - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:11 AM
Let's talk about hills. Do you like running hills? Do you seek out hills in training? Are you a good hill runner? What is your best piece of advice while running hills?

Plus let us know about the ups and downs of your workout, food/drink, and blather.

Bonus: What is the hilliest race you have done? Define "hilliest" any way you want: net elevation, lots of rolling, biggest downhill, etc.
Parent - - By blazer85 [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:24 AM
I do not have many hills where I live, so we don't have a hilly route. That said, there are a few places where we can do repeats on for a hill workout. Mostly, we are incliney & decliney. I will do repeats once a week if I have something hilly on the calendar. My track coach taught us to keep our arms in mind when running hills as your legs can't go faster than your arms. Other than that, my best advice is run hills with friends as motivation.

My calf pain is lessened and it was only 60 this morning, so I was tempted to run, but instead, I did 90 minutes in the pool. I want to shake this nagging thing and not irritate it so it lingers longer than it already has.  My stomach is also finally feeling better, so I was able to eat a bit last night and again this morning, so that is good.

Blather: blazerman called me yesterday afternoon, totally shocked, that his phone interview went extremely well. He has two more next week and if those go well, an in-person interview will occur.  Very good company and definitely a step-up in position. We don't want to put the cart before the horse, but it nice to have some positive news.

Bonus: Bighorn 50K. I don't recall the net elevation gain, but we started about 7600 ft, went up, went way down, went way up, went way down, went up to over 8000 ft, and finished at about 4600 ft. And that my friends, is why this city girl will never run a mountain, trail race again!
Parent - By Ed [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:48 AM
Good on Blazerman!  Hope he gets the job!
Parent - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:50 AM
Great news about blazerman! :grin:

Glad to hear you are feeling better and being smart about your calf. Great advice about paying attention to your arms while running hills.
Parent - By nooner [us] Date 2017-09-13 1:20 PM
Fingers crossed for Blazerman.
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:22 PM
A lot of encouraging signs here.  How is your gut treating you?
Parent - - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-14 5:27 AM
Good news on the job front! But wow, 3 phone interviews before a personal interview? That seems like overkill, gotta be so stressful for him (and you!).
Parent - By blazer85 [us] Date 2017-09-14 7:59 AM
First interview is with potential boss, second is with boss' boss, third is with potential peer and last one will be in person with the first person he interviewed with face to face as a follow up . Two of the three are in the west coast, so logistics plays a part in it. I have always interviewed with at least three people for my jobs, so I guess it seemed normal to me!
Parent - - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:29 AM
Today's daily was inspired by RTB coming up this weekend! I actually like running hills now. For the longest time, I hated them because I sucked at running them. I still suck at running them, but I have slowly built up my leg strength and endurance over the past year and I have been surprising myself with how much better I run on hills now. I used to do hill repeats in training, but my coach has me doing more speedwork and intervals so I'm not doing them this training cycle. My best piece of advice for running hills is to accelerate towards the top, power over the peak, and then let gravity pull you down. Gravity is your friend!

Today's workout was a relatively flat 5-miler. About 1.5 miles away from home I rolled my left ankle on nothing :roll: and hopped around for a while (I must have looked ridiculous :laugh:) and then finished the rest of my run. I felt really sluggish and exhausted during and after my run. :wtf: I think maybe I was underfueled since I haven't been eating much this week for no reason at all. :wtf: I have already had breakfast and second breakfast this morning so I am remedying that situation! Breakfast was an english muffin with butter and milk, and second breakfast was cottage cheese. Mid-morning snack of a Kind bar is up next.

Blather: I had my first wedding dress fitting last night. The seamstress has the dress till the end of October, so now I can stop worrying that the cats/dog/kids/future husband will somehow discover it hanging in the closet and mess with it. :roll::laugh: I am so excited, once it fits properly it's going to be so pretty! Now I just have to find super flat fancy shoes to go with it.

Bonus: Sugarloaf Marathon is probably the hilliest. While there is a net elevation loss, there was a lot of uphill in the course too, with a 2-mile long hill from miles 8-10 with about 400 ft of elevation gain and then some smaller but still significant hills throughout the rest of the course. I actually did NO hill training for that race, just speedwork, and I wasn't sure how my legs would handle the hills, and I was happily surprised about how well I did. I think I pushed too hard up that 2-mile hill which affected me later in the race, but oh well.
Parent - By Tim [us] Date 2017-09-13 11:23 AM is gravity your friend when you're going UP the hill?

Cool on the wedding dress.

Some of my local friends are doing RtB so you'll likely cross paths with them
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:24 PM
I think 2-mile-long hills in any marathon should be illegal -- see my comments about San Diego :mutmad:

Nice you have your dress out of harm's way :hug:
Parent - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-14 5:32 AM
Oooh, I can't wait to see pics of the dress, I bet you'll look stunning.

It is amazing how much easier hills get when you build up your strength! I ran Gilda's Run 15K in 2006 0r 2007, it was all in Saddle River Park, and I would have sworn it was really hilly. Last weekend's half, through the same park, was pancake flat. Go figure.:laugh:
Parent - - By Ed [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:46 AM
I used to like running hills in training.  While I do live in a pretty flat part of NJ, I was able to plot out some runs that included several good hills.  In the last years I was running, with my hip getting worse, I was much better running uphill than downhill.  My advice is to pace yourself on the uphill so that you're not so spent when the hill flattens out or goes back down that you can't still keep a good pace up. 

My workout was teaching cycling class this morning & we got up out of & down back into the saddle often!

Cheerios & raisin bran, OJ, coffee.  Cinnamon chip muffin, OJ, COFFEE

Just got back home from getting a haircut and have the next one scheduled just before hip replacement.  Also have a "date" with my dermatologist this afternoon to get stitches out!

Bonus:  The Steamtown Marathon is probably the hilliest race I've done.  I believe the net elevation change is 955' downhill but there are a lot of uphills, especially in the 2nd half!  There is also the traditional Leg 19 at RtB! least what leg 19 was from 2005 - 2009.  A lot of uphill...over ~6 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning!
Parent - - By Beastie Girl [us] Date 2017-09-13 8:54 AM
I don't think I've ever heard Steamtown referred to as hilly! I only made it to mile 16 the year I ran though so I guess I missed those uphills. :roll:
Parent - - By Ed [us] Date 2017-09-13 9:28 AM
I can't find an elevation chart on the Steamtown web site but it does confirm the 955' elevation drop.  You missed the MFHill at mile 25.5 that only levels off ~3 blocks from the finish :cry::cry::cry:
Parent - - By Xtreme Taper Date 2017-09-13 1:12 PM
I always had my time in the bank went I hit that hill so it was fun!   :evil: :cool:
Parent - By Ed [us] Date 2017-09-13 4:58 PM
I only ran it once (2002) and put a lot of time in the bank over the first, downhill, half of the race.  I had an epic positive split in the 2nd half :cry:
Parent - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-14 5:36 AM
Steamtown is super hilly. Net downhill, but lots of uphill, especially, as Ed said, in the 2nd half. And the meanest thing is that there's a huge hill at mile 25.5 of the course. Huge. I just stared up when I saw it. As I trudged up that hill, cursing the RD, I'll never forget seeing a fast-looking guy over on the side of the course just puking his lungs out.:shocker!: I haven't done Steamtown again since.
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:26 PM
I remember that nasty hill in the 20th mile or so of Steamtown.  It goes by a hospital that benefits from the race, and patients (kids) are out cheering, so you can't even swear while you're busting your butt : pbbt:
Parent - - By PTRunner [us] Date 2017-09-15 10:20 AM
Loving these Steamtown reviews since I'm running that one in a few weeks lol
Parent - - By Ed [us] Date 2017-09-15 11:00 AM
DON'T GO OUT TOO FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   :wink:
Parent - By PTRunner [us] Date 2017-09-16 11:22 AM
Thanks lol
Parent - - By BigTex [us] Date 2017-09-13 11:15 AM
I used to be pretty decent on hills, better at the up than the down.  Now I avoid them.  Best advice?  When it gets really tough, put your head down and count steps.  Look up every 100.

No hills in my workout today, just the usual gym.  Still nice outside, but not as nice as yesterday.  Should get hot and humid again in time for the weekend.

BONUS:  My hilliest marathon was the New Hampshire Marathon.  The downhills tore me up.
Parent - - By BigTex [us] Date 2017-09-13 2:54 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot.  There was a story in the paper this morning about how the Austin Marathon course is being changed for next year.  I think it's mostly to reduce the traffic disruption and include another part of town, but it ends up coming at the finish line from another direction.  In the last half mile, there will be a 9% uphill.  :cry:
I ran that hill once at the end of a 5 mile Turkey Trot, and it SUCKS.
Parent - - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:29 PM
The only time I ran the Austin Marathon, there was a hill at mile 14 that sucked the soul right out of me.  It felt like I ran the rest of the race carrying a damn piano :mutmad:  The traffic bothered DH so much, he asked me to never run that one again, and seriously, I was so whipped, it was an easy promise to make. 

9% in the last half mile -- that's unconscionable. :cry:
Parent - - By BigTex [us] Date 2017-09-14 7:02 AM
What year was that?  I can't think what hill that would be, unless it was on Expedition on the new (old) course
Parent - - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-14 9:02 AM
It was somewhere near downtown.  I turned a corner just after the half-marathon mark and :shocker!:  It looked like a mountain.  pacing also may have been an issue :roll:  I think this was Feb. 2004
Parent - By BigTex [us] Date 2017-09-14 9:31 AM
Found a map.  Must be the 35th street hill by Camp Mabry.  We used to run up that one a lot.  When there isn't a race going on, you keep your mind off of the hill by dodging cars coming at you around the blind curve.
Parent - - By Tim [us] Date 2017-09-13 11:18 AM
I like uphills. Don't like downhills as much. In races with multiple/rolling hills, I seem to pass people on the uphills and then get passed by the same people on the downhills. I'm a good uphill runner but not so good on the downhills. Best advice: Keep a steady effort going. Your pace will fluctuate and that's fine, but keep the effort constant.

Favorite hill/race story: Reeling in the runner in front of me on the final uphill of a 5K and then hanging on for dear life after we crested the hill and still had ~200 meters to go.

Workout: 3x800 at tempo-ish pace, with the distance estimated based on time. A good re-entry into "faster" running after a few months of nothing but easy-ish paced running. About 7 miles total.

Bonus: Twisted Ankle Trail Marathon, hands down. You basically go up and down a small mountain twice, and do a bunch of smaller hills while running along the mountain ridge. My time was over an hour slower than my Boston time from 4 weeks earlier.
Parent - By nooner [us] Date 2017-09-13 1:19 PM
Becky's Bluff at TA is the steepest thing I've ever been on in a race.
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:31 PM
I'm with you on not getting as much momentum on the downhills as I would like.  :wtf:

Yay for speed work :cool:
Parent - - By Xtreme Taper Date 2017-09-13 12:25 PM
I don't mind hills. I run them all the time on the trail. I used to be a very good down hill trail runner but age and creakiness has made me more careful. For long climbs, I tend to break the hill down into manageable sections, as typically there will be easier less steeper parts as you go along. I am not sure I have any great tips, other than staying positive and to realize your pace will vary somewhat. When I was a garminized road runner, a fun thing to do on the hills was to hold the pace. Meaning not let the average pace of your run drop while you were in the midst of a big climb.

Non-workout: No run today. I think. Maybe tomorrow. I did go the physical therapist and they did some new treatments on me today including biofreeze massage and some cold electrical wrap thing called game ready. I do not quite yet feel game ready.

Blather: The Cleveland Indians are in the midst right now of trying to extend their winning streak to 21 games!

Bonus: Total elevation was the Superior Sawtooth trail with 20,000 feet of climbing over 100 miles. Some big climbs, and constant up/down. Hilliest per mile was Hyner Challenge, 25k with 4,200 feet of climbing with hills aptly named Humble Hill and SOB. Top of first climb here. Yes, start is at the river level.
Parent - - By BigTex [us] Date 2017-09-13 12:47 PM
The Indians are going nuts.  They are going to steal home field advantage from my Astros.
Parent - By Xtreme Taper Date 2017-09-13 1:11 PM
5-3 Indians... just went final... 21 in a row!
Parent - - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-13 12:57 PM
I appreciate hills during training, and will seek them out. There are some good ones around me that I incorporate into runs, and I think they've really helped at hilly races like the Can Lake 50K. But I don't like hilly races. Training on hills has made me stronger on flatter race courses. My next marathon (NYCM) will be hilly, so I'm making myself tackle all the local hills and go into Central Park now and then. My advice is passed along from the friend who gave it to me: Look down, a few feet in front of you when running up a hill- don't look up at how high the hill is. And pump your arms more, your legs follow your arms.

No workout today.:sad: I've been on the go since I got up this morning at 5:50, getting cleaning done, bills paid, house stuff, then dogs walked. Maybe later, but I have to finish packing for RTB and get to the grocery store. I've been super hungry today, not sure why. I had a huge green smoothie and a protein bar for breakfast, chicken salad for an early lunch, fruit and another protein bar for a snack. Now I'm having a cup of coffee before I go walk my last dog, trying desperately to wake up. Blather: I really liked that 1/2 marathon course last Sunday. I got an email about early bird registration for next year, it was pretty cheap, so I signed up. September 9, 2018. What are the odds of me remembering that I'm running that race next year?:roll::laugh:

Bonus: I seem to remember the Halfwit Half-Marathon as being extremely hilly, my quads were shot for weeks after that one.
Parent - - By Xtreme Taper Date 2017-09-13 1:13 PM
Ha, yes the HalfWit is pretty dang hilly... especially the 128 steps to hell.
Parent - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-13 2:48 PM
Oh I forgot about those steps! Pure evil! I hurt worse after that half than I did after the 100 I did in April!
Parent - - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:41 PM
Busy day for you!!! 

If you're like me, you'll probably wake up about the time you turn off the light to finally try and get some sleep :roll:
Parent - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-14 5:24 AM
That's exactly what happened.:laugh: Thank goodness for Starbucks instant coffee, it's the only thing standing between me and tragedy at relays.: pbbt:
Parent - - By indie [us] Date 2017-09-13 9:07 PM
RtB :D Very cool. I am feeling very nostalgic seeing all my FB memories.
Parent - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-14 5:26 AM
This is the second relay I've done since I swore that I wouldn't do anymore relays.:laugh:
Parent - - By nooner [us] Date 2017-09-13 1:18 PM
I'm a decent hill runner as long as the hill isn't too steep. Some of the hills we use on our hilly Alps course are so steep you can almost walk up as fast as we are running.

The best piece of advice on running hills came from a pacer I was running with at the Des Moines Marathon last fall. He told us: Hills are dragons and we runners are knights trying to slay the dragon. You don't kill a dragon by chopping off its tail, you kill it by chopping off its head. The bottom of the hill is the tail and the top is the head. Go easy up the tail of the dragon and attack the head. It was a good way to visualize it.

We probably were supposed to do our hill workout today but our schedule is off this week due to a rainy Monday. We opted for our flat 5 mile route that has one smallish incline in the middle.

Bonus: I've done hilly on both ends of the spectrum. Black Mountain Martahon has about 3,000 ft elevation gain. Thunder Road (now the Charlotte Marathon) had the most hills - just relentless in the first half and then one long one up to mile 22 that broke my spirit. Ridge to Bridge (now Peak to Creek) had almost 3,000 ft elevation drop and I was hurting for a long term me after that. Kansas City which is what I have picked out for my 50th state is a pretty hilly marathon.
Parent - By PuddleThumper Date 2017-09-13 1:44 PM
i do like that visualization!
Parent - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-13 5:25 PM
That is a really great visual!
Parent - - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:48 PM
Both Tucson and St. George are famous downhill marathons that I've avoided because so many of my friend said how surprisingly painful the courses were. 

If all goes according to plan, when will you run KC?  I need to review you last race report and see how many states you have left.
Parent - By nooner [us] Date 2017-09-14 8:01 AM
If all goes as planned, KC will be October, 2020. I've got  most of it planned out but there are a few that could flip flop depending on what other folks are doing.
Parent - - By PuddleThumper Date 2017-09-13 1:43 PM
whether i like running hills or not is irrelevant. there are so many hills here that it's more work to try to avoid them. :roll::laugh: I'm not a great uphill runner but probably about average because lots of practice. I'm a much better downhill runner. Don't go crazy on a hill. Keep the effort even if you slow down and you will slow down. Stay focused through the crest and then let gravity help you out on the other side. i did a whole hill running section for our newbie half runners this spring. :cool:

and yep, did a nice hilly route this morning which is one of my go-to routes. I like it because the hill is gradual, it's well lit and no traffic usually around 6 am so i run in the middle of the street.  it's a half mile long you climb just over a 100 feet then a flat section and then slightly more up.  I met a couple friends too so that was a fun 5 miles. It sure is darker now.  :meh:

When donna was visiting, they were staying at an airbnb that is on such a steep hill that the sidewalk has curb bumps in it. they aren't stairs but only show up on steep sidewalks in residential areas. The street next to my building downtown that i walk on every day is 19%grade. :shocker!::grin:

bonus: trail races around here are all very steep and hilly. There's a lot of hiking going on!
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 7:52 PM
Good presentation on hill running! 

19% grade :shocker!:  Isn't that called a ski slope?
Parent - By indie [us] Date 2017-09-13 9:05 PM
19%. John used to assign 4 percent hills and it's practically impossible to find one that grade that is longer than a 1/2 mile around here.
Parent - - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 3:12 PM
I literally have no hills at all where I live.  There is a construction site across the street from the running store where I used to work.  It is called "Mt. VRC" (Valley Running Company)  The running classes practice hills there.  If we visit our son, I make a point of running in his 'hood because he has a nice collection of gentle hills.  A few times I have run at my DIL's work, a running store in downtown Austin, and they run all the hills you could ever want and then some.  It's great, but because of traffic, much of the running has to happen early, which means in the dark.  I had a good 18-miler there two weekends ago, but dang!  I was really, REALLY slow, and I'm going to blame it on the darkness (mostly) :roll:  We're going this weekend to house sit for them while they go to a trail race at Davis Mountains State Park.  DH is bringing his bike and we will workout together on a paved trail near where they live that has enough hills and we can start closer to sunrise.  I'll miss having others to run with, but :meh: it's a cutback for me anyway.  My advice for hills?   Runners often resort to using "batman arms" swinging them across the body instead of using them to pull upward, so my advice is to pump forward with your arms!

Today's workout:  Ups:  got in another 10 miles that was harder than it should have been.  We stayed out late playing trivia -- and finally WINNING for once.  We are the most consistent 3rd place finishers ever, so last nights victory was particularly sweet :cool:  Downs: getting up and heading out the door this morning -- :cry:  I'm sure fatigue had a lot to do with it, but it was really hard finding 10 miles in the 'hood today :wtf:.  Seemed like I was looping around all over the place and not making much progress :annoying: 

Bonus:  Hilliest overall was probably Paavo Nurmi in Wisconsin.  The elevation chart looked like an EKG :shocker!:   One that I found surprising was the San Diego Marathon and its nasty-ass two-mile long hill from mile 19-21 that was on a closed freeway, concrete surface and no damn cover from the sun :mutmad:  I'm still amazed that a city as beautiful as San Diego, the mother ship of the Rock-n-Roll marathon series,  couldn't find a better route.
Parent - - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-13 5:27 PM
Congrats on your victory! First place is not trivial!: pbbt:
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-13 5:47 PM
Parent - By indie [us] Date 2017-09-13 9:03 PM
Nice work on winning trivia night. :grin:
Parent - - By indie [us] Date 2017-09-13 9:01 PM
Not particularly fond of hills. I suck at them. I am a good downhill runner. :p

No workout. My dad was in the hospital the last few days and is back home now and doing better. Pretty stressful, he seems better but we'll watch and see. We've canned St. George, which really mentally I wasn't quite there.

Bonus: I haven't really run anything that classifies as hilly.
Parent - - By Spingoddess [us] Date 2017-09-14 5:41 AM
Your dad.:shocker!::hug: Are they in Texas with you? Or was he back in India when hospitalized? It's hard to be far away when this happens.
Parent - By indie [us] Date 2017-09-16 10:30 PM
Sorry just saw this. yes. they are here. And dad is doing better, so fingers crossed.
Parent - - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-14 6:54 AM
I have the same question as Spinner.  Where is your dad now?  I hope all is better :hug:

St. George -- lots of people come away either with a PR or an injury, so :meh:
Parent - - By indie [us] Date 2017-09-16 10:32 PM
Thanks Enid, he is doing better.

As for St. George, yeah, I missed last time because of an injury three weeks out and similar thing today. I felt a little sad seeing the 3 weeks out email from St. G. Especially because the original plan had been to take my folks there and show them Zion, Bryce etc. But it's okay, spending time with my Dad means more than anything else.
Parent - By Schantzie [us] Date 2017-09-17 9:18 AM
Well, of course spending time with your dad means more than anything else, but I am a little teary.  Showing your folks Zion and Bryce, and having them watch you run -- well, that would have been the best ever.   Sending all the positive energy in the universe your way :hug:
Up Topic Training / Marathons / Ups and downs Wednesday

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