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Up Topic General / Letters and Opinions / Restarting running again (this time more meds)
- - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-10 7:15 AM
Last fall I started running again after about a year hiatus.  In late August I started with about 3 miles a day trying to average 4 runs a week.  I could not run even a half mile continuously at the start, so ran a half mile, walked a little.  But gradually, by late November, I was up to about 3.5 miles running continuously (usually) a day 4 to 5 days a week.  I stopped running in December and didn’t run all winter, either (partly due to BP issues listed below).  Now I am trying to start up again after taking the winter off.  I started running 3.5 miles 4 times or more a week again the first week of April.  I was able to run the first mile before going into a walk/run cycle every half mile.  The next week I was able to increase the continuous run to 1.5, then walk run every half mile again.  Now I’m up to 2.5 miles continuous (and I’m hurting at the end of this cycle) before the walk/run cycle starts.  I’d like to move on to 3 miles continuous, but it doesn’t feel like I’m quite ready just yet.  Main pain is in the legs; lungs don’t seem to be the problem.  Quads hurt, and calves.  I probably need to do more stretching.  I am running in a fairly newer pair of Nike Vomeros, similar to my normal go to shoe (Asics Nimbus).

Now for the meds routine:  Last fall I was on Warfarin (as I have a family history of clotting and won’t go off this med), 125 ug Levothyroxine (had half my thryroid removed in 2008 – have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis), 150 mg Ranitidine (acid reflux, will stay on this as well), and 20 mg Atorvastatin (I don’t plan on getting off that as it may reduce the chance of stroke).  Around Christmas time, I was having a lot of problems with my blood pressure (at one point it was 220 over 120).  So he put me on 20 mg Lisinopril.  After a month, that wasn’t cutting it, so he added 10 mg of hydrochlorothiazide.  After another month, still not cutting it, so added amlodipine.  A month later, BP now 120 over 70.  So I am running with this cocktail of drugs.  I do know that hycrochlorothiazide makes you sensitive the sun, but does anyone know if these could hinder endurance?

I realize I am in my 50s, but in the recent past (maybe 2-3 years ago) when I started on a running routine, I had no problems building up to a steady run.  At one point maybe 8 years ago, I was able to do a long run of 10 miles eventually with no walks.  One other question:  How has the Vomero change say in the past 10 years?  I ran in the Vomeros about 10 years ago and they were great, just wore out a little fast.  I have heard they are now using the Lunarlon (if that’s what it’s called), which might not be enough cushion for me?  I have ran in cushioned shoes (Cumulus) in the past and had a few problems.  Maybe the shoe is the issue?
Parent - - By foggydoggy [us] Date 2017-05-10 8:07 AM
I was on amlipodine for a little while and didn't like it.  Makes your feet swell and I didn't feel much like running. Compression socks definitely help with that!
Parent - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-11 6:38 AM
Interesting.  Amlodipine is a Calcium channel blocker and some websites say it is probably better for runners.  Lisinopril is an ACE inhibitor, which is also OK for runners.  I would have thought Hydrochlorothiazide, which is a diuretic, or water pill would cause more issues. 

I hope to loose some weight and get off one or more of these drugs in a few months or a year.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2017-05-10 7:50 PM
Sorry I can't help K, but I'm unfamiliar with those meds let alone the combination. I might have been on the BP one or something similar about 20-25 years ago but was wasn't running much at the time and was able to get my BP down with lifestyle and job change and haven't been on that med or any other since. My doc did say that the med likely had a depressive effect on my systems both mental and physical...I'm sorry I can't identify it more accurately but I don't have any records or specific memory from that long ago.

Other than that, congrats on the burgeoning comeback and my very best wishes.:hug: Oh and I think you used to wear Asics Nimbus at one time (or maybe not?) and despite the increasingly exorbitant cost, I still love that shoe which might worth a tryout for you. The last three builds (17, 18 and 19) have been the best ones in my opinion. Again, keep it rolling!:cool:
Parent - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-11 6:43 AM
I am thinking maybe the Nikes aren't offering the same type of cushioning they used to offer say 10 years ago.  Maybe the Lunarlon isn't as good for heavier runners compared to whatever is in the Nimbus's.

I am thinking about buying a pair of Nimbus's.  I decided against it late last year as my last pair that I bought maybe 2 years ago broke down (not the cushioning, but the inside heel material).  They are on sale at RRS.  I was also thinking about the Kayano.  I did well with that shoe over 10 years ago, but didn't like the weight.  Now they've lightened the shoe and if I can catch it on sale, I might try it again.
Parent - - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2017-05-11 2:45 AM
As for shoes or meds, I can't really comment.  However, I will put in a plug for a run/walk routine, from the beginning of the run to the end.  I'd also encourage you to look into the Maffetone Method.  You'd need to use a heart rate monitor during your runs.  I personally have found it very difficult to stay within the recommended heart rate range, but you might find the method helpful as you get back into a running routine.

All the best.
Parent - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-11 6:44 AM
I'll have to look into that.  I do have a heartrate monitor somewhere in the garage.  Probably need to replace the batteries in the watch and get a new chest strap.
Parent - - By old turtle Date 2017-05-12 8:06 AM
For drug questions I suggest you talk to your pharmacist. Best of luck.
Parent - - By tahoeblue (spamkiller) Date 2017-05-15 5:08 PM
This from someone who lived through the 60's? :wink:
Parent - By old turtle Date 2017-05-15 7:32 PM
Parent - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2017-05-16 8:35 AM
Parent - - By tahoeblue (spamkiller) Date 2017-05-13 10:28 PM
I'm a little surprised by the BP cocktail.  I'd be asking why I'm not on a Angiotensin II receptor antagonist such as Losartan Potasium (Cozaar) instead of the combo.  I'd be especially concerned about the hydrochlorothiazide and running.  It's hard enough to regulate fluid when running between all of the sweating and the tendency to increase salt intake (like drinking Gatorade), so adding another thing to the mix to try and keep it all balanced would seem to be a bit challenging.  If my memory serves me right, a diuretic can also cause a lot of fatigue from the running.

Also a little surprised with Warfarin rather than one of the newer drugs such as Pradaxa or Xarelto or Eliquis.  I thought all three were thought to be better than Coumadin, especially the last two, and especially when used over a long course of treatment. 

How old is your Doctor?  If s/he is older than you, you might want to review your meds with someone a bit younger who would have a tendency to be more abreast of newer medications.   If you can find a younger doctor who is used to treating athletes, that would be ideal for a second opinion.  Doesn't hurt to ask.
Parent - - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-15 1:04 PM
Well, I have several doctors.  For BP, he (he’s about my age – 50s) started me on Lisinopril, then added another med a month later, followed by another about another month later until my BP was under control.  I do understand that some meds probably don’t work well with running, but the main goal is to lose some weight and then gradually drop a med or two.  I was hoping to off the Amlodipine first, then the hydrochlorothiazide, too and just be on Lisinopril (partly due to the low cost).  But I will ask about the Losartan Potassium next time I see him.  I’ve been pretty happy with him and feel he is up to date with what’s out there (he did mention alternatives to Warfarin).

On the Warfarin, it is for a genetic problem on my father’s side.  Almost all of the family on my dad’s side are/were on Warfarin due to producing clots (with or without any trauma to limbs, etc.).  Just over 3 years ago I had 3 pulmonary embolisms and spent a few days in the hospital.  I am seeing a Hematologist now and he has offered the other medicine choices, but the problem with them is the cost and the problem that you can’t reverse the blood thinning effects in the event something happens (such as needing surgery, etc.).  With coumadin, all you need to do is go off it and the blood thinning effects stop fairly fast.  Warfarin has been around almost forever and is dirt cheap, including the cost of monitoring.  I get checked monthly now and am charged something like $0.50 to $0.75 each time.  My family members that have been on it are in their 80s and have been on coumadin for at least 50 years.  Most likely they will die due to other causes (a few were smokers in their younger years).  I haven’t had that many problems with Warfarin and will stick with that all my life.  Another thing is the lawsuits on the alternatives.  I don’t think I ever saw any lawsuits for Warfarin.
Parent - - By tahoeblue (spamkiller) Date 2017-05-15 4:58 PM
I found the diuretics, the calcium channel blockers, and the ACE inhibitors all worked great for about 6 months.  After that they become less effective and caused a lot of fatigue issues.  Something to file in the back of your mind if you run into issues down the line.  The Losartin has worked well with few side effects and I've been able to ween down to the lowest available dose as I've been able to increase the running.

I kind of figured that a primary consideration for Warfarin would be price.  I think it's all basically generic now, so very affordable.  I think the Pradaxa has a reverse agent now, but don't think the other two do. 

Hopefully you won't have any issues are you increase your running.  If you do run into issues now or in the future, don't despair - there are still some pretty main stream alternatives out there that you can explore.  Good luck with it!
Parent - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-08-10 10:00 AM

How is Losartin and sun sensitivity?  I am going to call my Dr. today to try to get off Amlodipine and hydrochlorothiazide (and maybe lisinopril, too).  Amlodipine and hydrochlorothiazide is definitely making me more sun sensitive.
Parent - - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-15 1:10 PM
Late last week I grabbed a pair of Nimbus’s (forgot I had them) that don’t have a lot of miles on them (maybe 200).  I stopped running in them as the heel material wore out early.  I put my Superfeet Blue’s (very new insoles) in and ran the same rout last Friday and today.  I noticed a difference in that my legs weren’t feeling that bad (quads and calves hurt with my Nikes).  I still had to walk at about the 2.5 mile mark, but I think I may be able to progress a little now.  Probably try walking at the 3 mile mark later this week or early next week.

I will need to buy another pair of Nimbus’s.  Looks like maybe the Lunarlon material isn’t the best for me.
Parent - - By jaszflamus (I like wool!) Date 2017-05-15 5:16 PM
Cool. I've never found cushioning like the Nimbus has.:cool:
Parent - - By neustkg (Important) Date 2017-05-15 8:58 PM
Now to find it on sale.:roll:
Parent - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2017-05-16 8:38 AM
good luck...
Running Warehouse has always been my best bet...
Parent - By LDR (100 Mile Stud) [us] Date 2017-05-16 8:39 AM
Glad things are improving.
Parent - By blazer85 [us] Date 2017-05-15 7:07 PM
I started wearing the Vomero in 2008....I think it was the Vomero 2. I liked all versions up to the Vomero 9 and wore them exclusively until about Christmas 2016. I didn't like the 10 nor 11.....there was something funk about the way the heel fit. I need a neutral shoe and like a bit of cushion and settled on the Asics Nimbus 19. It is almost too "cushy" and takes 5-6 runs until they feel broken in. I am breaking in my the pair now and haven't had any issues.

Good luck!
Up Topic General / Letters and Opinions / Restarting running again (this time more meds)

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